| Pages sur ce sujet: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 Auteur du fil: Jared Tabor
|
|---|
OlafK
Royaume-Uni
Local time: 04:03
anglais vers allemand
+ ...
No, seriously, I don't mind appearing on ProZ at all and as I pointed out it has its uses but I've always been opposed to allowing outsourcers to dictate the price for a translation. Why not just let them post a job and let the bidder quote like in any other business? Outsourcers might get influenced by the rates the others offer on here and try thier luck or just think these are normal translation rates. Once you remove the ability to publicly set a fixed price, rates will go up, I'm sure, sinc... See more No, seriously, I don't mind appearing on ProZ at all and as I pointed out it has its uses but I've always been opposed to allowing outsourcers to dictate the price for a translation. Why not just let them post a job and let the bidder quote like in any other business? Outsourcers might get influenced by the rates the others offer on here and try thier luck or just think these are normal translation rates. Once you remove the ability to publicly set a fixed price, rates will go up, I'm sure, since even when asked for their "best rate", translators will never bid as low as the prices offered in the jobs section.
As long as outsourcers are allowed to set prices and publish them here I won't become a paying member. ▲ Collapse
| | | | David Russi 
États-Unis
Local time: 21:03
anglais vers espagnol
+ ...
| A sensible idea | Dec 6, 2009 |
Olaf Knechten wrote:
Why not just let them post a job and let the bidder quote like in any other business? Outsourcers might get influenced by the rates the others offer on here and try thier luck or just think these are normal translation rates. Once you remove the ability to publicly set a fixed price, rates will go up, I'm sure, since even when asked for their "best rate", translators will never bid as low as the prices offered in the jobs section.
As long as outsourcers are allowed to set prices and publish them here I won't become a paying member.
I like it a lot and wish it could be implemented. Unfortunately, like many other good suggestions that could actually SUPPORT translators worldwide and allow rates to go higher, it is not likely to see the day of light.
| | | | | Featured member | Dec 6, 2009 |
Michele Johnson wrote: Olaf, please don't forget having your photo/profile link featured on the main page from time to time. Olaf Knechten wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know the main benefits of ProZ membership are the ability to bid for (badly paid) jobs on this site first and the possibility to ask unlimited kudoz questions. Since this ("I depend on low rate jobs and have to ask lots of questions") doesn't reflect well on paying members I never considered becoming one myself.
The Blueboard is a very helpful tool (I always trust the bad ratings but not necessarily the good ones) and I can pay for it with Browniz. You could restrict use of the Blueboard to paying members of course, but there are other albeit slower ways of checking on agencies.
You are surely not serious in viewing this as one of the benefits that justify a paid-for subscription? I cannot see that myself.
I do pay for my subscription, and I see value in it. I've not been shy about criticising shortfalls, but I also believe in supporting what I consider to be a very useful professional forum. I don't consider it expensive compared to membership of some professional bodies. I've certainly had a decent return on my membership over the years from jobs that I've won as a translator, and translators that I've had access to as an outsourcer. Perhaps I would have been able to garner exactly the same benefits as a non-paying member - but then if we all took that attitude, and ProZ gained no income from members, would they still be here 10 years on? Or at least would they be providing the range of services on offer?
For what it's worth, I also think that certain agencies and end-clients who post jobs via ProZ pay a little more attention to 'premium' users. I certainly do when outsourcing projects.
| | | | Jānis Greivuls
Lettonie
Local time: 06:03
anglais vers letton/lette
+ ...
| I could not say better... | Dec 6, 2009 |
Ronald van der Linden wrote:
having the browniz system was good, and as I'm not a millionair in browniz I carefully had to select what job offer to use them on...
i do not have money in my wallet, as i don't respond to all job offers, and i'd only need to purchase maybe $ 5 for 3 months... Therefore paying $25 is not appealing. Why doesn't Proz.com have a system like Skype, purchase 10USD as a minimum?
I think that Proz.com is slowly trying to benefit from it's monopoly position, as I only consider one other site (that I cannot mention, as the moderator asked me to "refrain from advertising" djeez!) a true competitor.
The benefit of having a paid membership is something I clearly do not see.
There are many general job sites where you do not have to pay anything to respond to job postings and with a first come, first served basis.
I'd suggest to lower the minimum purchasing amount, actually I'd suggest to lower the membership fee alltogether.
Paying members of this site complain about low prices, but they actually sustain this website, which only pushes prices down. Companies publish a job add, wait, don't really care if a member pays or not, as long as he/she offers want is requiered.
In my opinion, in the end, charging for every single thing, will be the downfall of this site, but not before having made some profit of course.
The next step? Pay for each dictionary search?
Then why not cut to the chase, and act as a priviledged website for paying members only. Kick all the non paying members out, after a trial period of 3 months.
[Bijgewerkt op 2009-12-03 23:26 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
Lucas Rayel
Brésil
Local time: 00:03
anglais vers portugais
+ ...
| It's worth it | Dec 6, 2009 |
Maya Gorgoshidze wrote:
Please take into account that ProZ.com is a for-profit company and it has right to form its own policy accordingly. On the other hand, it is a “community” of course, and we have considerable profit from it. In other words, we make much more money with help of ProZ.com then we would make without it. So why shouldn’t we support the site?
Best regards,
Maya
I agree here. I became a member of Proz last month and I've already made 2.5x more the price of the membership. With that said, it's obviously worth to be a member and all I have to do now is to thank Proz existance.
[Edited at 2009-12-06 19:38 GMT]
| | | | | Correction to Olaf | Dec 7, 2009 |
Olaf Knechten wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know the main benefits of ProZ membership are the ability to bid for (badly paid) jobs on this site first and the possibility to ask unlimited kudoz questions.
That is incorrect. When it comes to meeting clients, the biggest benefit is that members appear in the first set of results when outsourcers do directory searches.
Many (most?) members never quote, and most never ask a KudoZ question.
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 05:03
français vers allemand
+ ...
Henry D wrote:
Many (most?) members never quote, and most never ask a KudoZ question.
Correct, at least as far as I am concerned. I hardly ever quote but am contacted through the Connect system, which works fine so far - and the rates offered are acceptable. As per KudoZ, I do my homework as much as possible and would only ask a question in KudoZ when I am at the end of my wits.
[Edited at 2009-12-07 06:46 GMT]
| | | | | What's the point of being a non-paying member now? Simply helping others? | Jan 19, 2010 |
I had no idea about this change in policy and I've just discovered it through wanting to request a project that asks for bids to be submitted through Proz.
I am so incredibly disappointed! Like Henry Hinds, I also have a great deal of browniz. What can I use them for now?
On the other hand, have you stopped to weigh up the probabilities of being given a project through Proz, considering the worldwide competition? Let's say I apply for 20 projects in one month. What are ... See more I had no idea about this change in policy and I've just discovered it through wanting to request a project that asks for bids to be submitted through Proz.
I am so incredibly disappointed! Like Henry Hinds, I also have a great deal of browniz. What can I use them for now?
On the other hand, have you stopped to weigh up the probabilities of being given a project through Proz, considering the worldwide competition? Let's say I apply for 20 projects in one month. What are my probabilities of getting one? 1 in 50? 1 in 40? The cost for my 20 applications would be $20.00, so I'd say I shall definitely be losing out on this one.
Meanwhile, I wonder what those of us with a considerable amount of browniz (earned by offering valid answers to others FREE OF CHARGE) are going to be getting back from Proz in return. Until now, we have been able to ask translation questions and submit bids for job offers. What happens in the case of those of us who ask very few questions? Well, it seems to me that we are now simply going to be working free of charge and nothing else.
This is a tremendous disappointment and, like many other non-paying members, it most definitely does not offer me any encouragement whatsoever to become a paying member, which I have actually been considering for some time. This consideration has now been ruled out. What a let down for the start of the year!
Margaret Caulfield ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| Recommending Proz | Jan 20, 2010 |
This is another thing I'd like to point out:
Throughout the time I've been doing full-time translating, I have obviously made acquaintance and even friends with other translators. On many occasions I have found them complaining of a lack of wrok flow so, almost since I registered at Proz in 2003, I have recommended this site to them for them to send their quotes for projects.
Again on many occasions, they opted to become paying members, so Proz has actually "earned" tha... See more This is another thing I'd like to point out:
Throughout the time I've been doing full-time translating, I have obviously made acquaintance and even friends with other translators. On many occasions I have found them complaining of a lack of wrok flow so, almost since I registered at Proz in 2003, I have recommended this site to them for them to send their quotes for projects.
Again on many occasions, they opted to become paying members, so Proz has actually "earned" thanks to my intervention, even though I myself am not a paying member (each person knows his/her own financial situation and commitments). I'm afraid this is something I can no longer do. I can hardly recommend a site to someone who is looking for work, i.e. income if he/she has to pay.
I really am so disappointed.
Margaret ▲ Collapse
| | | | | A few clarifications | Jan 20, 2010 |
margaret caulfield wrote:
I also have a great deal of browniz. What can I use them for now?
You can get a discount on membership, and once you are a member, you can buy directory ads with them.
On the other hand, have you stopped to weigh up the probabilities of being given a project through Proz, considering the worldwide competition? Let's say I apply for 20 projects in one month. What are my probabilities of getting one? 1 in 50? 1 in 40? The cost for my 20 applications would be $20.00, so I'd say I shall definitely be losing out on this one.
I have no idea what the probabilities are. There are too many parameters that are unknown to me. However, I must say, as a simple user, you are at a great disadvantage anyway. When you quote for a project, your quote will appear only after all paying members' quotes. Given the popularity of your language pair, the chances of outsourcers looking at your quote in detail is slim. Same story for the Directory. Your name will appear only after paying members. Again, given the number of translators in your language pair, the outsourcer has a long way to go before even seeing you on the list.
a considerable amount of browniz (earned by offering valid answers to others FREE OF CHARGE)
You are mistaken here. When you provide answers "FREE OF CHARGE" to KudoZ questions, you "earn" KudoZ points, not BrowniZ. Your KudoZ answers never had anything to do with your ability to quote on projects.
You asked what you are "going to be getting back from Proz in return".
In return of helping your colleagues? Do you expect anything from ProZ in return? Why? If you can expect anything from anybody, that would probably be a "thank you" from the asker. It is either given directly, or it maybe only in the form of the points (KudoZ, not BrowniZ) you are getting. The KudoZ points help you get ahead in the directory - but again, as a non-paying user, that may not help much.
Until now, we have been able to ask translation questions
Perhaps you are mistaken? You are still able to do that. That function is not related to BrowniZ.
Well, it seems to me that we are now simply going to be working free of charge and nothing else.
"Working free of charge"? I am at loss here.
Do you refer to helping others with their questions? Nobody has ever paid you for that.
Nothing has changed there - you are getting KudoZ points, just as before. You have the same choice as before - either help or not, on a volunteer basis (yes, "free of charge").
This is a tremendous disappointment and, like many other non-paying members, it most definitely does not offer me any encouragement whatsoever to become a paying member, which I have actually been considering for some time. This consideration has now been ruled out. What a let down for the start of the year!
If I were you, in light of the above explained details, I would rethink my approach to being effective at getting jobs through ProZ. I am not sure how successful you were so far, what kind of jobs did you get through public postings, but my experience is that the best jobs are usually offered through the directory, not through the public posting system. Getting a decent place in the directory would be my goal, and the starting step to that is getting paid membership. I am not sure if you know that, but there is a money-back guarantee. So, you could try it for a while, and cancel if you don't think it worth it. I vaguely remember seeing some shorter term membership options, or monthly subscription structures as well, but I am not sure - you should check.
There are also partial memberships, one is specifically for jobs.
With 4000 BrowniZ, it would cost you $60.00.
http://www.proz.com/membership?sp_submode=partial_membership
Many freelancers and companies view membership at ProZ or other sites as advertisement, and consider the expense as a marketing expense, a normal part of doing business, an investment, not "losing out".
I agree with this view, I think it is a much better description than looking at it as "paying for the ability to quote on jobs". Advertisements/commercials are not a sure way of getting business, but there must be something in them, otherwise we would not see that many around us, right?
Katalin
[Edited at 2010-01-20 16:28 GMT]
| | | |
I was considering buying a subscription once I could gather enough money (which in my condition is likely to take quite some time), just to put some more chances on my side. But this does not make sense anymore; since I can't quote on most jobs anymore, I'm better off just going on a hunt for recruiting agencies over the Web and waiting until they contact me.
I seldom use ProZ for anything other than quoting on jobs. Glossaries and kudoz questions rarely are useful to me and I have ... See more I was considering buying a subscription once I could gather enough money (which in my condition is likely to take quite some time), just to put some more chances on my side. But this does not make sense anymore; since I can't quote on most jobs anymore, I'm better off just going on a hunt for recruiting agencies over the Web and waiting until they contact me.
I seldom use ProZ for anything other than quoting on jobs. Glossaries and kudoz questions rarely are useful to me and I have other places I go when I want to ask a question. Even though quoting was "free", I never quoted on jobs that seemed a waste of time and my browniz were earned mainly by writing articles for ProZ, so I did consider it an interesting exchange for both parties.
Paying 1$ per quote (or subscribing, for that matter) is as ridiculous as sending a cheque with a copy of your CV when you apply for a job "in real life". Since when do we have to earn the right to offer our services? They are the ones looking for us in the first place!
When you think about it, most ads/directory sites ask for payment to put an ad up, not to reply to them. I cannot fathom why this would work the other way around for us!
The only use of ProZ for me from now on (except for the occasional "contact by e-mail" posting) will be to find more agencies and companies to send my CV to - from outside ProZ. I suppose that my profile and the BlueBoard can still be useful as well, but they won't be too relevant to people/companies outside of ProZ.
I will give credit where credit is due, however. First for keeping this thread up and allowing free speech; secondly, ProZ does have the right to do whatever they please with their policies, so basically I am just saying that you are losing me through this, for what that's worth. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ali Alsaqqa
États-Unis
Local time: 23:03
anglais vers arabe
| I totally agree with you, Jocelyne | Jan 20, 2010 |
Jocelyne S wrote:
I've met several people who became paying members of the site after having secured one or more jobs through the site.
If this is a general trend, might Proz.com not be shooting itself in the foot by taking the possibility to quote away from non-paying members?
When people are starting up their business, they may not necessarily want to invest in membership right away. If in time they see a benefit from the site, they may join later, but I'm not sure that limiting access is the best way to go about it in that case.
I really liked the idea that people could "work" for the good of the site and earn Browniz that could be used for BB access and quoting on jobs. It seemed like a fair deal to me.
I imagine that the decision was thought out by site staff and taken for specific reasons, but I feel that it's a bit unfortunate. There are a lot of great non-paying members on this site and it would be pity (and a loss to the whole community) to lose them.
Best,
Jocelyne
| | |
|
|
|
Bruno Veilleux wrote:
I seldom use ProZ for anything other than quoting on jobs.
You might want to re-read Katalin's post above for advice on succeeding on ProZ. It's all right there, pure and simple. Many members, including myself, are a testament.
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
États-Unis
Local time: 23:03
espagnol vers anglais
+ ...
| Directory Placement | Jan 21, 2010 |
Hi Margaret,
Something to consider: With the number of KudoZ points you have, as a member you would quickly go from page 50-60 in the directory to page 1 or 2. You would see a drastic increase in the number of companies contacting you directly (at your rates) and there would no longer be any need to quote on posted jobs. Most jobs and most of the good jobs are never posted anyway.
margaret caulfield wrote:
[Edited at 2010-01-21 13:42 GMT]
| | | | | I think exactly like you! | Jan 22, 2010 |
Jocelyne S wrote:
I've met several people who became paying members of the site after having secured one or more jobs through the site.
If this is a general trend, might Proz.com not be shooting itself in the foot by taking the possibility to quote away from non-paying members?
When people are starting up their business, they may not necessarily want to invest in membership right away. If in time they see a benefit from the site, they may join later, but I'm not sure that limiting access is the best way to go about it in that case.
I really liked the idea that people could "work" for the good of the site and earn Browniz that could be used for BB access and quoting on jobs. It seemed like a fair deal to me.
I imagine that the decision was thought out by site staff and taken for specific reasons, but I feel that it's a bit unfortunate. There are a lot of great non-paying members on this site and it would be pity (and a loss to the whole community) to lose them.
Best,
Jocelyne
After visiting plenty of other translation sites, I loved ProZ because it was the only one where you could apply to jobs without paying a membership. So I used my first 300 Browniz to apply to jobs, and then gathered more BrowniZ points by answering polls, answering the CAT tool surveys, entering terms in the glossaries, etc. In one year, I have applied to a total of 46 jobs thanks to the Browniz I got by doing all these activities. I got some of the jobs and obtained really good customers which I still keep. Once I saw all this was working good (at least for me) and all the extra benefits I could get, I became a paying member voluntarily. Now it's like a "take it or leave it" approach.
If I hadn't had this chance at all and realized that ProZ was just like any other translation paying site, I would have simply passed to the next one. Not only good old translators who aren't members will lose here (and probably leave the site), but also new translators who would have loved to try the site and who felt attracted to the non-paying approach, not found elsewhere on the Net. The translators who are here for years know what is ProZ like, but the newcomers won't even have a chance.
Getting BrowniZ was not free either, you had to put a constant effort and visit the site every day, even several times a day to get a bunch and be ready to apply for the next job. This effort also costs time, and therefore money. ProZ itself will lose as well because fewer translators will be attracted and I don't know if this decision will really increase the number of memberships of the site. Normally, people don't like to be obliged to do things.
What a pity!
| | | | | Pages sur ce sujet: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.
More info » |
| | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
