| A témához tartozó oldalak: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 Téma indítója: Jared Tabor
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| Browniz points | Dec 3, 2009 |
Dear Claire,
Is it not true that you can only use the points towards the purchase of a new membership? So, you cannot use the points to pay towards renewing a membership. Or am I wrong?
It would be more useful to me if I, a paying member, can use the browniz points towards something. Eg like a discount on my renewal, discount on a course or purchase of software, the cup of coffee during a conference, someone mentioned.
Have a great and productive day!... See more Dear Claire,
Is it not true that you can only use the points towards the purchase of a new membership? So, you cannot use the points to pay towards renewing a membership. Or am I wrong?
It would be more useful to me if I, a paying member, can use the browniz points towards something. Eg like a discount on my renewal, discount on a course or purchase of software, the cup of coffee during a conference, someone mentioned.
Have a great and productive day!
Lucinda ▲ Collapse
| | | | Marijke Singer 
Spanyolország
Local time: 20:56
ProZ.com-tag
holland - angol
+ ...
| Exactly my point and I am a member (for the time being) | Dec 3, 2009 |
David Russi wrote: Maya Gorgoshidze wrote:
Directly or indirectly, both of you surely benefit from the site, don’t you? Otherwise you would not use it.
Maya
[Edited at 2009-12-03 07:43 GMT] Yes, I do benefit from the site, and I believe the site benefits from my participation. However, this is quite different from what your original statement that "we make much more money" from using the site, something that for me is simply not true. Saludos, David
Proz does not increase my income. I do, however, benefit from certain features mainly the Blue Board as I said in my previous posting. I also believe the site benefits from my participation and yet I do not ask for payment
That is what I define as a community and community spirit.
| | | | Claire Cox
Egyesült Királyság
Local time: 19:56
francia - angol
+ ...
Lucinda wrote:
Dear Claire,
Is it not true that you can only use the points towards the purchase of a new membership? So, you cannot use the points to pay towards renewing a membership. Or am I wrong?
Lucinda
Hi Lucinda,
No, you can put Browniz towards renewal too. I've just had my reminder and you are eligible for a small discount in return for 4000 Browniz. It may be small, but it's certainly not to be sniffed at. I think it would be a great idea if you could use them towards conferences or courses too, though.
As for ProZ membership not being useful in monetary terms, I would certainly have to contradict that. I would say that three of my main clients approached me via the ProZ portal. By becoming a paid member, your visibility on searches from outsourcers increases significantly, especially if you also participate in KudoZ and forums and it is much easier for outsourcers to find you. I don't think I've ever quoted for a job on ProZ as such.
All the best,
Claire
| | | | Jocelyne S
Franciaország
Local time: 20:56
francia - angol
+ ...
| A shot in the foot? | Dec 3, 2009 |
I've met several people who became paying members of the site after having secured one or more jobs through the site.
If this is a general trend, might Proz.com not be shooting itself in the foot by taking the possibility to quote away from non-paying members?
When people are starting up their business, they may not necessarily want to invest in membership right away. If in time they see a benefit from the site, they may join later, but I'm not sure that limiting acces... See more I've met several people who became paying members of the site after having secured one or more jobs through the site.
If this is a general trend, might Proz.com not be shooting itself in the foot by taking the possibility to quote away from non-paying members?
When people are starting up their business, they may not necessarily want to invest in membership right away. If in time they see a benefit from the site, they may join later, but I'm not sure that limiting access is the best way to go about it in that case.
I really liked the idea that people could "work" for the good of the site and earn Browniz that could be used for BB access and quoting on jobs. It seemed like a fair deal to me.
I imagine that the decision was thought out by site staff and taken for specific reasons, but I feel that it's a bit unfortunate. There are a lot of great non-paying members on this site and it would be pity (and a loss to the whole community) to lose them.
Best,
Jocelyne ▲ Collapse
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Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X)
Lengyelország
Local time: 20:56
angol - lengyel
+ ...
Apparently the End of Year Membership Campaign hasn't been going well, so they need to add a stick to the carrot (does this idiom work in English, by the way?).
Perhaps it would be more encouraging, at least as far as I am concerned, to allow six-month membership (or shorter), so that people don't have to invest over $100 before they've really seen the alleged benefits of the membership.
[Edited at 2009-12-03 09:56 GMT]
| | | | | Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | Dec 3, 2009 |
[quote]Maya Gorgoshidze wrote:
Maybe I was not quite clear. So I will clarify what I mean. I said that 'we' (all registered users, including payer members and non-members) have considerable profit from ProZ.com – the for-profit company. And I think it is good to support them, because they work for 'us' so hard regardless we pay for them or not. Moreover, they have right to develop their own policy and this should be quite understandable IMHO.
Marijke Singer wrote:
Sorry Maya but this is not necessarily true. I can honestly say that I have never got a direct job through Proz. I do not 'profit' as such from being a member. It has certain benefits such as the Blue Board but I really do not make any more money because I am a member.
David Russi wrote:
It is not clear to me who the "we" is in this statement: I never made even a little money from this site, regardless of whether I was a paying member or not.
There is a lot of value in this site, but in my case it is certainly not tied to making money...
Directly or indirectly, both of you surely benefit from the site, don’t you? Otherwise you would not use it.
Kind regards,
Maya
Hi Maya: I believe that you do not have very clear ideas. ProZ is a business like any other. And only that. The benefits that Proz membership offers are of payment. The rest of services, supposedly free, are paied by means of translators working for free to ProZ benefit.
For example, if we pay information about a company with Browniz, it is because we have done earlier an effort of many hours to create specific glossaries, we have invested our time to raise it to the page and we have given it to ProZ in exchange for a money fallacy called Browniz.
Tell me, sincerely: What other company in the world can get such a vast glossary in all languages for free and an information network as that of ProZ in exchange for nothing...?
[Editado a las 2009-12-03 10:33 GMT]
| | | | | Perhaps a compromise solution | Dec 3, 2009 |
If new users have no opportunity to test the public system for projects, it is unlikely to serve as a draw for members. Perhaps a monthly or annual or even one-time allocation of "bids allowed" for BrowniZ or wampum beads or whatever might be useful for the commercial side of the site.
If there is no room for large numbers of frivolous, ill-considered submissions by unserious wannabes (eager to work for 1 cent per word), then perhaps the general level for combinations like ESEN migh... See more If new users have no opportunity to test the public system for projects, it is unlikely to serve as a draw for members. Perhaps a monthly or annual or even one-time allocation of "bids allowed" for BrowniZ or wampum beads or whatever might be useful for the commercial side of the site.
If there is no room for large numbers of frivolous, ill-considered submissions by unserious wannabes (eager to work for 1 cent per word), then perhaps the general level for combinations like ESEN might improve to the point where serious translators can take the system seriously.
Probably not, but then there are other benefits. BrowniZ points for conference discounts is a great idea. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
Franciaország
Local time: 20:56
francia - német
+ ...
Frankly, and after having seen other posts on this subject, I would be interested in knowing how many non-members have used their BrowniZ to access job postings.
[Edited at 2009-12-03 10:59 GMT]
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Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X)
Lengyelország
Local time: 20:56
angol - lengyel
+ ...
| good question | Dec 3, 2009 |
One of the stated reasons for removing the browniz possibility is that only 10% of the bids would come from non-members anyway. However, dollars against peanuts that this figure includes bids on member-only jobs, which gives it very little value in terms of conclusive information.
I guess that outsourcers interested in hiring non-members will now by-pass the bid feature and just ask to contact them by e-mail.
[Edited at 2009-12-03 11:15 GMT]
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Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote:
One of the stated reasons for removing the browniz possibility is that only 10% of the bids would come from non-members anyway. However, dollars against peanuts that this figure includes bids on member-only jobs, which gives it very little value in terms of conclusive information.
Looking at the latest jobs in which there was at least one quote with browniz, these are the figures:
- 13 quotes, 1 paid with browniz
- 10 quotes, 3 paid with browniz
- 12 quotes, 1 paid with browniz
- 5 quotes, 1 paid with browniz
- 16 quotes, 2 paid with browniz
- 7 quotes, 1 paid with browniz
- 12 quotes, 3 paid with browniz
- 35 quotes, 1 paid with browniz
This list leaves out the majority of job postings, for which there are no quotes paid with browniz at all. (Some of those are members-only postings, but not all.)
I guess that outsourcers interested in hiring non-members will now by-pass the bid feature and just ask to contact them by e-mail.
That option is always there, but in light of these figures, I would not expect any change in job poster habits. The experience won't be much different for job posters, especially since the sort order for quote display, like that for the directory, has always put members first. In the case of the 12 quotes, for example, if browniz quoting had not been allowed, we can say that there might only have been 11 quotes -- and the one that would not have existed is probably the one which was shown in the very last position anyway.
When one considers the numbers and the sorting methodology, it should not be surprising that the experience of quoting using browniz tends not to be particularly rewarding. This is one of the secondary reasons for the option to be discontinued.
| | | | | Thanks, Claire | Dec 3, 2009 |
Claire Cox wrote:
As for ProZ membership not being useful in monetary terms, I would certainly have to contradict that. I would say that three of my main clients approached me via the ProZ portal. By becoming a paid member, your visibility on searches from outsourcers increases significantly, especially if you also participate in KudoZ and forums and it is much easier for outsourcers to find you. I don't think I've ever quoted for a job on ProZ as such.
Thanks for posting, Claire. Your situation is the normal one, and you have put your finger on what membership does: it boosts your visibility so that you get an increased flow of potential clients. As you have found, the directory (in which members are shown in the first set of results, and non-members in the second) is the main way members meet new clients.
| | | | Maya Gorgoshidze
Grúzia
Local time: 22:56
Tag (2004 óta)
angol - grúz
+ ...
MODERÁTOR | Another clarification | Dec 3, 2009 |
David Russi wrote: Maya Gorgoshidze wrote:
Directly or indirectly, both of you surely benefit from the site, don’t you? Otherwise you would not use it.
Maya
[Edited at 2009-12-03 07:43 GMT] Yes, I do benefit from the site, and I believe the site benefits from my participation. However, this is quite different from what your original statement that "we make much more money" from using the site, something that for me is simply not true. Saludos, David
Dear David,
As for me, the site definitely helped me to extend my business as a freelancer. This surely helped me to "make much more money" then I earned before registration at the site. And I guess I am not the only one who met clients and established new business relations via ProZ.com. This is what my original statement meant and it is definitely true for me at least.
Pablo Bouvier wrote:
Hi Maya: I believe that you do not have very clear ideas…
Dear Pablo,
I do not see Browniz points of others, but I will not be surprised if I learn that I am among the “Browniz leaders” with my points today. So be sure I know how they are earned. However, I agree that this “money fallacy called Browniz” is good to use for some services or promotions at the site.
Regards,
Maya
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Robert Forstag
Egyesült Államok
Local time: 14:56
spanyol - angol
+ ...
| Benefits of membership | Dec 3, 2009 |
I personally see site participation and membership as highly beneficial in a number of ways, including the following:
1. The "Internet visibility" that Claire and Henry have mentioned.
2. Unrestricted access to the Blue Board.
3. Kudoz as a resource for terms help when needed (although I never approach the monthly or weekly query limits, there are times when I need to post more than 5 terms in a single day; regardless, it is nice to know that the option is ... See more I personally see site participation and membership as highly beneficial in a number of ways, including the following:
1. The "Internet visibility" that Claire and Henry have mentioned.
2. Unrestricted access to the Blue Board.
3. Kudoz as a resource for terms help when needed (although I never approach the monthly or weekly query limits, there are times when I need to post more than 5 terms in a single day; regardless, it is nice to know that the option is there if needed).
Each of these benefits is in one way or another directly tied to making money; I'm a little puzzled by those who would contend otherwise.
I do not begrudge proz.com being a money-making enterprise. I don't think anyone would bother to keep the site running as well as it does if it were not a profit-making venture. I don't work for free (if I can help it!). I don't expect anyone else to either.
I think that the obvious needs to be mentioned as well: other translator portals do not in my view approach proz.com in terms of the benefits that they offer. This is why I renewed my annual membership yesterday.
To me, it really is a no-brainer. The fee represents a few hours of labor and the advantages I derive from it far exceed the small outlay of cash. Any single one of the benefits I've cited above would be worth the annual fee.
There is in my view plenty of room for improvement and I agree with what others have said here regarding the Jobs Board having become all but useless for serious translators. It is important to recognize and criticize the problems we see; I have done, and will likely continue to do, my share of this.
Yet when praise is in order, it should not be withheld.
_______
[Edited at 2009-12-03 15:00 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Benefits: with Robert | Dec 3, 2009 |
Absolutely, thank you Robert.
[quote]Robert Forstag wrote:
I personally see site participation and membership as highly beneficial in a number of ways, including the following:
1. The "Internet visibility" that Claire and Henry have mentioned.
2. Unrestricted access to the Blue Board.
3. Kudoz as a resource for terms help when needed (although I never approach the monthly or weekly query limits, there are times when I need to post more than 5 terms in a single day; regardless, it is nice to know that the option is there if needed)
Each of these benefits is in one way or another directly tied to making money; I'm a little puzzled by those who would contend otherwise.
... Any single one of the benefits I've cited above would be worth the annual fee.
_______
| | | | Edward Potter
Spanyolország
Local time: 20:56
Tag (2003 óta)
spanyol - angol
+ ...
| Natural development of the site | Dec 3, 2009 |
I have been a user of Proz from almost the beginning - over ten years ago.
Their strategy has always been a winning one while others have fallen by the wayside.
This is merely another step in the site's evolution. I have no doubt that if this does not work out they will retract this new fee.
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