| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | The first scam I've encountered in 15 years, involving three countries/regions, what can I do? Thread poster: Jing Hu
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Jing Hu
China
Local time: 04:06
English to Chinese
Over the past 15 years of working as a freelance translator, never once have I been swindled. Until now. And three countries/regions are involved: Taiwan, France, and the UK.
I was tracked down last July by a Taiwanese lady named Cindy, who exclaimed that she finally found me through a labyrinth of contacts that she had made just for the purpose (she was telling the truth). She said she did so because her younger brother wanted to commission a book for me to translate into Chinese. ... See more Over the past 15 years of working as a freelance translator, never once have I been swindled. Until now. And three countries/regions are involved: Taiwan, France, and the UK.
I was tracked down last July by a Taiwanese lady named Cindy, who exclaimed that she finally found me through a labyrinth of contacts that she had made just for the purpose (she was telling the truth). She said she did so because her younger brother wanted to commission a book for me to translate into Chinese. It was written by a “good friend” of his.
That “good friend”, it turned out, was Lord Peter Mandelson, the UK’s former Secretary of State and a member of the House of Lords.
In the few days that followed, I asked the Taiwanese lady some fundamental questions about this commission, including the purpose of translation, prospects of publication, and the copyright. She said that my translation would not be published. It would be used only for limited readership inside a foundation her brother was establishing with the author in mainland China. As for the copyright, she reassured me that her brother and the author were good friends. When asked if I could directly communicate with her brother, she replied, “Currently it’s not feasible for him to connect with you as he has other engagements.”
In late September 2020, I offered to translate the first five pages, approximately 3,000 Chinese characters, of the book’s first chapter as a test before I was given the green light to translate the rest. Then, on October 4, Cindy Chen and I officially entered into a translation contract, by which she sent me a deposit of 5,000 yuan on October 30.
This book gives a meticulously detailed personal account of decades of work in the UK’s politics, particularly in the Labour government. Such a volume would produce 400,000 Chinese characters when translated. Considering that Cindy was a senior citizen living alone in her sixties and showing great sincerity, I lowered my rate to nine cent (about USD 0.014) per Chinese character. The total fee would be 36,000 yuan (about USD 5,700).
Although I knew that my translation would not be published, I still held up my own standard as a professional translator.
First of all, I thumbed through the history of the Labour Party. Then I watched the author's documentary film on YouTube. I consulted either Google or my friends in the UK for every unfamiliar political term I came across during translation. I collated my translation. Finally, I even read the translation aloud to enhance readability.
It was an awful lot of work to do and a difficult deadline to meet. I did not hesitate to decline better-paid jobs from my old clients, to give up spending time with my family and friends, and even to suspend the WeChat media I had been running with my friends. Every day in the next six months, I worked for more than 10 hours.
In the process, Cindy texted me less and less, but nevertheless she responded every time I texted her.
On January 22, 2021, her brother “Henri” showed up and friended me on WeChat. Then we had a voice chat, during which he commended my ability to translate (by then I had sent him the first few finished chapters).
Right before the Spring Festival in early February, I tentatively expressed my wish to get paid for the first half of the work done. Henri, however, turned me down by saying that it was the busiest time of the year. I did not insist as nothing in the contract supported my request.
I began to feel uneasy about this, but how could I suspend my work when I knew that they had tried all they could to find me, I thought to myself.
I finished the book in early May and delivered all my work to Henri. After that, I kept asking for payment, and Henri kept saying he was busy.
On May 21, Henri sent me a link. When I opened it, my heart sank. It led me to a web page where I could buy the 2013 Chinese edition of the same book by the same author, with a totally different title. Immediately I texted Henri, asking what he thought about this. He never replied.
I had signed the contract with the sister, so naturally I turned to her for an explanation.
One day later, I got a reply from Henri claiming that he had learned about the previous published translation only a few weeks earlier and that it was my fault as well as his. He refused to pay me on this account.
At that moment, my eyes welled up. For those full six months of hard work, is this what I am supposed to get in return?
What hurt me most is not the financial loss. Right from the beginning, I have responded with sincerity and kindness, but in the end I was wrongly thought of as being responsible for not reporting the previous translation, to say nothing of the six months of labour wasted. All this boiled down to a selfish attempt of trying to save the translation fee that is equivalent to Taipei's average salary for one month. But in fact, the commissioning party should take care of all that concerns the commissioned work, whereas the translator is by no means legally responsible for spending a lot of time looking if the commissioned book has any previous translations. Besides,it is also common for a book to have multiple translations, which in no condition should exempt anyone from breach of contract.
Now I’ve made this public. My decision to do so is not prompted by my wish to recover the financial loss. Admittedly, it is my own problems that led to this situation. I was too naive, too empathetic, too trusting. Only if I insisted on my pricing, only if I demanded advance payment in stages, only if....
As the Book of Rites says: "Gold and jade are not what you treasure; only loyalty and integrity are." Confucius also warns: “If a man does not keep his word, what is he good for?” I still believe that justice will be done in one way or another.
I've alerted the House of Lords, particularly Lord Mandelson himself, and the CIOL to this scam. I've consulted a few lawyer friends, who believe that a law suit and later the enforcement of a ruling over such a great distance would not be plausible. What more can I do? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Hoping for the best outcome | Jul 13, 2021 |
After reading your ordeal, I really feel sorry for your situation and hope for the best outcome. Can you try have the book published as another version of the title?
That’s all I can suggest.
Best wishes.
DJH
| | | | Adieu 
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
| That's horrible | Jul 13, 2021 |
And also the reason why you simply NEVER deliver a fully completed large project, especially of the one-off variety, before seeing some kind of payment from the client (that single payment from many months ago you mentioned doesn't really count)
Doubly so if the client is some kind of rando from the internet who "claims to represent" and refers to Lord this and Foundation that.
Respectable stable people don't Foundation. 419ers and cults and revolutionaries do.
[... See more And also the reason why you simply NEVER deliver a fully completed large project, especially of the one-off variety, before seeing some kind of payment from the client (that single payment from many months ago you mentioned doesn't really count)
Doubly so if the client is some kind of rando from the internet who "claims to represent" and refers to Lord this and Foundation that.
Respectable stable people don't Foundation. 419ers and cults and revolutionaries do.
[Edited at 2021-07-13 18:41 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jing Hu
China
Local time: 04:06
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER | Lesson learned the hard way | Jul 14, 2021 |
Adieu wrote:
And also the reason why you simply NEVER deliver a fully completed large project, especially of the one-off variety, before seeing some kind of payment from the client (that single payment from many months ago you mentioned doesn't really count)
Doubly so if the client is some kind of rando from the internet who "claims to represent" and refers to Lord this and Foundation that.
Respectable stable people don't Foundation. 419ers and cults and revolutionaries do.
[Edited at 2021-07-13 18:41 GMT]
Guess I'd worked with trustworthy publishers for too long! This is indeed a lesson learned the hard way. Now I am thinking about lodging a law suit.
[Edited at 2021-07-14 03:26 GMT]
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LIZ LI
China
Local time: 04:06
French to Chinese
+ ...
| Dispute rather than scam | Jul 14, 2021 |
1. Did you sign anything with any of these people?
2. Sorry for your loss.
3. Your rate hurt me, too.
I know for long that book translation is the least profitable (at least in China), but never imagine it as low as you cited...
If your answer for Q1 is a NO, then this would be an expensive lesson in your freelancing career.
[Edited at 2021-07-14 02:58 GMT]
| | | | Jing Hu
China
Local time: 04:06
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER | Loiw rates in China | Jul 14, 2021 |
LIZ LI wrote:
1. Did you sign anything with any of these people?
2. Sorry for your loss.
3. Your rate hurt me, too.
I know for long that book translation is the least profitable (at least in China), but never imagine it as low as you cited...
If your answer for Q1 is a NO, then this would be an expensive lesson in your freelancing career.
[Edited at 2021-07-14 02:58 GMT]
To your first question, yes, that's why I've decided to sue these people.
I've had seven books published. The first book was with Chongqing Publishing Group and they paid as low as 0.04 yuan per Chinese character! Four of the books were commissioned by Peking University Press and their rate was about the same as I quoted for the Taiwanese people. And market-based average rates with translation agencies are nowhere higher than this even among certified and experienced freelance translators. Now you know how hard life can be for us Chinese translators. But I know that translators in the French and Chinese pair are generally better paid than those in the English and Chinese pair.
[Edited at 2021-07-14 11:40 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 22:06
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Don't they have small claims courts in Taiwan? The way I see this, this matter has nothing to do with anyone in the UK or France. The subject of the book (Lord so-and-so), the original author, the other translator, the other publisher etc. all have nothing to do with your translation job. And even if it turned out that the original author did not give permission for the publication of this book (or gave permission and then withdrew it, or did not give permission yet), it doesn't change your a... See more Don't they have small claims courts in Taiwan? The way I see this, this matter has nothing to do with anyone in the UK or France. The subject of the book (Lord so-and-so), the original author, the other translator, the other publisher etc. all have nothing to do with your translation job. And even if it turned out that the original author did not give permission for the publication of this book (or gave permission and then withdrew it, or did not give permission yet), it doesn't change your agreement with this lady.
The way I interpret what you wrote is that somewhere towards the end of this project, the client's relationship with the author soured, or otherwise: there was an agreement with something in the foundation to publish the book, and then something happened (e.g. change of leadership, an event that was cancelled, etc.) that made the publication of the book unnecessary, and the lady and her brother wanted to save money by cancelling the entire translation in a plausible-sounding way. Perhaps the lady hadn't gotten proper (written) permission from the foundation to commission the translation, and she made the mistake of doing so in her own name, and now that the foundation has no further need for the translation, they're expecting her to pay for it out of her own pocket, and she doesn't want do that. Or perhaps she had a falling out with the foundation's leadership somehow, etc. Either way, it is entirely likely that there is no foul play here, and that it is simply a matter of a client finding themselves in a financial position that they want to get out of. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jo Macdonald
Spain
Local time: 22:06
Italian to English
+ ...
| Client refuses to pay = not a scam | Jul 14, 2021 |
When translating books or on any long job, get paid as you go.
Invoice the chapters you translate that month at the end of the month, then translate the next batch next month when the chapters you've done have been paid.
This way you're only risking one month's work instead of the whole book/job and the client pays if they like the work and want the rest of it.
Agree to this before starting the job. If the client doesn't agree simply walk away.
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:06
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Jing Hu wrote:
......on October 4, Cindy Chen and I officially entered into a translation contract, by which she sent me a deposit of 5,000 yuan on October 30....... The total fee would be 36,000 yuan (about USD 5,700).
We need to know more about this. Was the total fee of 36,000 yuan mentioned in the contract?
| | | | Jing Hu
China
Local time: 04:06
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER
Tom in London wrote: Jing Hu wrote:
......on October 4, Cindy Chen and I officially entered into a translation contract, by which she sent me a deposit of 5,000 yuan on October 30....... The total fee would be 36,000 yuan (about USD 5,700). We need to know more about this. Was the total fee of 36,000 yuan mentioned in the contract?
Yes, it's a full-fledged contract that specified everything about the project.
| | | | Jing Hu
China
Local time: 04:06
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER | A highly likely scenario... | Jul 14, 2021 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
Don't they have small claims courts in Taiwan? The way I see this, this matter has nothing to do with anyone in the UK or France. The subject of the book (Lord so-and-so), the original author, the other translator, the other publisher etc. all have nothing to do with your translation job. And even if it turned out that the original author did not give permission for the publication of this book (or gave permission and then withdrew it, or did not give permission yet), it doesn't change your agreement with this lady.
The way I interpret what you wrote is that somewhere towards the end of this project, the client's relationship with the author soured, or otherwise: there was an agreement with something in the foundation to publish the book, and then something happened (e.g. change of leadership, an event that was cancelled, etc.) that made the publication of the book unnecessary, and the lady and her brother wanted to save money by cancelling the entire translation in a plausible-sounding way. Perhaps the lady hadn't gotten proper (written) permission from the foundation to commission the translation, and she made the mistake of doing so in her own name, and now that the foundation has no further need for the translation, they're expecting her to pay for it out of her own pocket, and she doesn't want do that. Or perhaps she had a falling out with the foundation's leadership somehow, etc. Either way, it is entirely likely that there is no foul play here, and that it is simply a matter of a client finding themselves in a financial position that they want to get out of.
This is a highly likely scenario. But also note that Mr. Chen had known about the previous translation for weeks before he showed it to me. He clearly wanted me to finish the book nonetheless. Why would he do that when he believed that my translation was useless. Just to save his face?
I can only sue the lady from where I live.
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
Which one is the pirate translation? The published version or yours?
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 22:06
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Jing Hu wrote:
Why would he do that when he believed that my translation was useless? Just to save his face?
Possibly, yes.
I can only sue the lady from where I live.
Your contract is with the lady, so she's the only one that matters. She claims that she did this on behalf of her brother, but your contract appears to be with her. Or do women in Taiwan have special protection in the event of signing contracts that would make your contract with her void or that would cause the contract to be with a male member of her family?
| | | | LIZ LI
China
Local time: 04:06
French to Chinese
+ ...
| Chances are LOW | Jul 14, 2021 |
Jing Hu wrote:
To your first question, yes, that's why I've decided to sue these people.
I've had seven books published. The first book was with Chongqing Publishing Group and they paid as low as 0.04 yuan per Chinese character! Four of the books were commissioned by Peking University Press and their rate was about the same as I quoted for the Taiwanese people. And market-based average rates with translation agencies are nowhere higher than this even among certified and experienced freelance translators. Now you know how hard life can be for us Chinese translators. But I know that translators in the French and Chinese pair are generally better paid than those in the English and Chinese pair.
[Edited at 2021-07-14 11:40 GMT]
If you can't sue her (or small claims) in TW, then chances are low for you to get back your money.
I'm also suspicious about her identity, whether she's been telling you who she really is.
I'll go public with all the details with the media if I were you, esp. streaming ones.
AND
You should really work on looking for better clients.
I understand that translation may be just a side income for you and you don't rely on your books for a living.
But still, these so-called market prices are INSULTING for a qualified professional like you.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:06
Member (2008)
Italian to English
LIZ LI wrote:
I'll go public with all the details with the media if I were you, esp. streaming ones.
I suggest you email the person with whom you signed the contract, and give her/him a link to this discussion. If s/he can't read it because s/he isn't a Proz member, so much the better. S/he'll know her/his case is being discussed but will be frustrated to know that s/he can't follow the discussion.
I would also suggest that you contact other Proz members in Taiwan, for further advice. Do NOT let this drop.
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