| Pagina's in het onderwerp: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9] > | Do you think Proz should add Trados certification as translators search criteria? De persoon die dit onderwerp heeft geplaatst: Pablo Bouvier
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Marc P (X) 
Local time: 03:32
Duits naar Engels
+ ...
| To Sylver and Henry | Aug 16, 2007 |
sylver wrote:
First, I had a look at the job form, and I couldn't find the darn option.
Sylver, AFAIK, the option isn't in the jobs form; it's in the directory search dialog. Here are the options:
Language pair emphasis:
info Service type:
info Field of expertise:
info Native language:
info Country of residence:
info Region of residence:
info City of residence:
info Professional credential status:
info Translator productivity software:
info SDL TRADOS Translator's Workbench Certification:
info SDLX Certification:
info Current availability:
info Self-defined expertise in field selected:
info Location:
info Keyword:
Henry D wrote:
I would point out that we have--since our inception--provided search criteria in relation to certifications offered by professional associations.
Henry, the "Professional credential status" gives the options "n/a", "reported" and "verified". I think you'll agree that there is no comparison in the level of detail between "Professional credential status: n/a/reported/verified", and SDL TRADOS Translator's Workbench Certification. If the policy were applied consistently, it would be possible to select ATA members only (for example), or ITI members only, or BdÜ members only, or members of a number of selected associations. And in my not particularly humble opinion, "SDL TRADOS Translator's Workbench Certification" - in consideration of what this certification actually entails, and as distinct from the requirement actually to possess Trados, which I can accept as a valid selection criterion - is about as relevant as the translator's shoe size when compared to whether he or she is a member of a professional association.
Marc
| | | | | The worst of both worlds | Aug 16, 2007 |
sylver wrote:
It's been a while now that Trados is on the bottom rung of translator's satisfaction surveys, but it's remains on top of the list in the clients' minds, who are sold on "productivity gains" (which is true compared to working without a CAT, but not compared to working other CATs), and massive savings for repetitive materials (no edge on other tools, but the end customers are seldom aware of the existence of other CATs).
Translators would do best to use the CAT tool of their choice and one which actually helps them increase their productivity and consistency. Agencies would be best just aligning the translations they receive using a tool like Logiterm or AlignFactory (which takes about 7 seconds per document pair and can handle 100 formats). There would then be no need to try to impose a specific tool, or certification.
Regards,
David
| | | | Textklick
Local time: 02:32
Duits naar Engels
+ ...
In memoriam | Getting real with search criteria | Aug 16, 2007 |
Marc P wrote:
Sylver, AFAIK, the option isn't in the jobs form; it's in the directory search dialog. Here are the options:
Language pair emphasis:
info Service type:
info Field of expertise:
info Native language:
info Country of residence:
info Region of residence:
info City of residence:
info Professional credential status:
info Translator productivity software:
info SDL TRADOS Translator's Workbench Certification:
info SDLX Certification:
info Current availability:
info Self-defined expertise in field selected:
info Location:
info Keyword:
Right. A tad off-topic, but not too far.
Without really wanting to add yet a further search dialog, the issue of using a "TMX-compliant CAT tool" should not be overlooked.
Is it indeed not the case that many translators successfully import Trados TMs into their own CAT tool?
Indeed, it has been said on this site that colleagues have responded to jobs where TRADOS was specified as a must, done the job, and returned the finished job and updated TM, with agencies being both satisfied and none the wiser.
It was after all SDL who, prior to the acquisition of Trados, was the first CAT vendor to be awarded "TMX Certified Compliant status" http://www.oasis-open.org/archives/announce/200305/msg00016.html .
To maintain the independent and objective integrity of Proz.com, adding a criterion here such as "Able to work with Trados", "Uses TMX-compliant CAT tool" should certainly be worth consideration?
[Edited at 2007-08-16 09:04]
| | | | | Jobs as well... | Aug 16, 2007 |
Here is the quote from the press release:
Outsourcers at ProZ.com now have a means of requiring SDL TRADOS or SDLX® Certification when posting to the job board or searching the directory, and also when using the new ProZ.com Connect! sourcing and vendor management platform
Which means that the option is (or is planned to be) included in the jobs posting system. As I said, the certificate does not prove much, so it's more like "Pay SDL to get more jobs".
[Edited at 2007-08-16 09:12]
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Steffen Walter
Duitsland
Local time: 03:32
Lid 2002
Engels naar Duits
+ ...
| Certification criterion IS included in job posting form | Aug 16, 2007 |
Jabberwock wrote: Here is the quote from the press release:
Outsourcers at ProZ.com now have a means of requiring SDL TRADOS or SDLX® Certification when posting to the job board or searching the directory, and also when using the new ProZ.com Connect! sourcing and vendor management platform
Which means that the option is (or is planned to be) included in the jobs posting system. As I said, the certificate does not prove much, so it's more like "Pay SDL to get more jobs".
Hi all,
I've just checked - the job posting form does include the certification criterion, saying:
SDL TRADOS Translator's Workbench Certified
{radio button} Must be SDL TRADOS Translator's Workbench Certified
{radio button} Not required
Steffen
| | | | Marc P (X)
Local time: 03:32
Duits naar Engels
+ ...
| Search dialog | Aug 16, 2007 |
Textklick wrote:
Without really wanting to add yet a further search dialog, the issue of using a "TMX-compliant CAT tool" should not be overlooked.
In fact, this issue reflects a deficiency of the search dialog. You can search for a translator with Trados, Deja Vu or OmegaT, but not for one with any of those particular three (as opposed to "any CAT tool"). You can search for a translator who is a member of a professional association, but not a member of a particular professional association, or of one of particular selection of associations. You can search for a translator in Germany, but not in any German-speaking country - I wonder how many translators in Austria are overlooked as a result.
This is a common flaw of search dialogs that I've also experienced in other areas.
Arguably, you can perform multiple searches or use the keyword option, but the predefined search options will obviously tend to influence user behaviour somewhat.
Is it indeed not the case that many translators successfully import Trados TMs into their own CAT tool?
Indeed, it has been said on this site that colleagues have responded to jobs where TRADOS was specified as a must, done the job, and returned the finished job and updated TM, with agencies being both satisfied and none the wiser.
No doubt, but to what extent should users' choices be made for them? Annoyance was expressed here recently at how Google now "corrects" what it thinks are typos in search arguments. Should the search dialog no longer permit a user to search for a translator with Trados, but decide on the user's behalf that this should include DV? I don't think there's any doubt that users (of the directory) often wish to search for translators who have Trados, and as long as they can, that's what they are likely to do. That's precisely why I'm challenging the new search criterion (for Trados certification), in fact - that it has not been included in response to an actual user demand, but is intended precisely to generate such a demand.
To maintain the independent and objective integrity of Proz.com, adding a criterion here such "Able to work with Trados", "Uses TMX-compliant CAT tool" should certainly be worth consideration?
It might be worth considering, but it would be difficult to implement in practice. "Able to work with Trados" can mean many things, is correspondingly difficult to define, and is not entirely uncontroversial.
Marc
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I think that all of it is a part of natural evolution of any web-based resource. They all start as "communities" and "workplaces", they all end up as "fast growing aggressive companies", bought by some dotcom fat cat.
Remember livejournal, bought by six apart?
Here's what happening to it http://pics.livejournal.com/pyrop/pic/0002qhpf
I only hope SDL won't eventually... See more I think that all of it is a part of natural evolution of any web-based resource. They all start as "communities" and "workplaces", they all end up as "fast growing aggressive companies", bought by some dotcom fat cat.
Remember livejournal, bought by six apart?
Here's what happening to it http://pics.livejournal.com/pyrop/pic/0002qhpf
I only hope SDL won't eventually absorb proz.
About certification, if SDL and proz will succeed in their effort and the lack of certification will begin to affect job flow, I will buy it. It's just business. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Brandis (X)
Local time: 03:32
Engels naar Duits
+ ...
| Outsourcers´attitude will also change | Aug 16, 2007 |
Hi! lately I have been oberving a few postings
" Credentials required and or certified" but I can pay only USd0.04. This trend will certainly reach SDL Trados 2007 and the attached certified status as well. So who is finally losing. They would say, well you purchased SDL Tradsos and all those expensive CAT tools may be the certification is good for you, but all I need a certified and high quality translation at USd0.04. Sorry my budget is limited. Such an outsourcer would never understand... See more Hi! lately I have been oberving a few postings
" Credentials required and or certified" but I can pay only USd0.04. This trend will certainly reach SDL Trados 2007 and the attached certified status as well. So who is finally losing. They would say, well you purchased SDL Tradsos and all those expensive CAT tools may be the certification is good for you, but all I need a certified and high quality translation at USd0.04. Sorry my budget is limited. Such an outsourcer would never understand what it takes to be certified at all, and all the involved catches and twists in Trados and other tools. May be there should be some kind of certification made possible for these groups as well.
Can I then also limit my ability and expenses. I guess thsis a way of finding a balance in the system.Brandis
[Edited at 2007-08-16 09:55] ▲ Collapse
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Mike Kidd (X)
Verenigde Staten
| Great feedback - thank you. | Aug 16, 2007 |
Hello All,
Thank you for your comments and feedback. I am finding the dialog most valuable.
I have typically observed that markets or in this case, a community will determine the value of initiatives like a product certification, such as you are doing in this forum for example. It is interesting to note there are strong perspectives on both sides of the issue.
For our part, we have provided a check box option to help people showcase (in the case of lang... See more Hello All,
Thank you for your comments and feedback. I am finding the dialog most valuable.
I have typically observed that markets or in this case, a community will determine the value of initiatives like a product certification, such as you are doing in this forum for example. It is interesting to note there are strong perspectives on both sides of the issue.
For our part, we have provided a check box option to help people showcase (in the case of language professionals) and locate (in the case of outsourcers) a desired skill set. By the way, a starting number of community users have already elected to use this indicator in their profiles.
Please know that our “partnership” with SDL TRADOS Technologies refers to the professional relationship we have with the people over there and their willingness to dedicate energy to try new initiatives with our community. Frankly, I would welcome the same level of dedication and focus from all of our advertising partners.
Please keep the feedback coming and thank you for your support of ProZ.com. If anyone would like to talk directly, I would be pleased to do so. Please send me an email at [email protected] or give me a call at +1 703 593 7434.
Best regards,
Mike ▲ Collapse
| | | | Vito Smolej
Duitsland
Local time: 03:32
Lid 2004
Engels naar Sloveens
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | On jobs and searches .... | Aug 16, 2007 |
A dozen entries back the discussion started on search criteria - reason being the company they have got lately -.
What I would find very interesting, is to see the track record, namely, which criteria are used how often and/or give the best hit ratio for the searcher - and the searched. I would guess that 5% is used 95% of the time, and the rest - who cares...
Are these numbers available? Basically it's the same situation as with AdWords: what can I do to increase my c... See more A dozen entries back the discussion started on search criteria - reason being the company they have got lately -.
What I would find very interesting, is to see the track record, namely, which criteria are used how often and/or give the best hit ratio for the searcher - and the searched. I would guess that 5% is used 95% of the time, and the rest - who cares...
Are these numbers available? Basically it's the same situation as with AdWords: what can I do to increase my conversion rate. As Henry would say, so that everybody understands: what can I do to catch more bass?
If it takes the SDL certificate - oh my, oh well ... to quote (inaccurately I guess) J.M. Keynes:"If and when conditions change, I change my mind. What do YOU do?"
regards
Vito
[Edited at 2007-08-16 11:00] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Concerning the concerns | Aug 16, 2007 |
Marc P wrote:
That's precisely why I'm challenging the new search criterion (for Trados certification), in fact - that it has not been included in response to an actual user demand, but is intended precisely to generate such a demand.
That is exactly my concern, as well. Clever marketing by SDL will make the certification needed, because, well, it is needed.
Textklick wrote:
Is it indeed not the case that many translators successfully import Trados TMs into their own CAT tool?
Indeed, it has been said on this site that colleagues have responded to jobs where TRADOS was specified as a must, done the job, and returned the finished job and updated TM, with agencies being both satisfied and none the wiser.
And here's another catch: you cannot get the certificate if you do not have the latest version of Trados. Therefore, if you want to bid for a job requiring the certicate, you must prove that you have bought the certificate AND the software. The fact that you can produce exactly the same result with a different software is no longer relevant.
| | | | | Stats on software required in job postings | Aug 16, 2007 |
Vito Smolej wrote:
What I would find very interesting, is to see the track record, namely, which criteria are used how often...
Here are stats regarding CAT tools required in job postings so far in August:
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Postings - pct of all postings - CAT tool required
---------------------------------------------------------
306 - 20.1% - SDL TRADOS
55 - 3.6% - SDLX
39 - 2.5% - Wordfast
17 - 1.1% - DejaVu
15 - 0.9% - STAR Transit
8 - 0.5% - Other CAT tool
6 - 0.3% - Passolo
4 - 0.2% - Fusion
2 - 0.1% - Catalyst
1 - 0% - Multicorpora
1 - 0% - Across
The above are not directly relevant to this discussion on certification, but you asked, Vito, and these are the most relevant numbers I can think of that we have on hand. We don't have the numbers for directory searches readily available.
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Marc P (X)
Local time: 03:32
Duits naar Engels
+ ...
| Do you think Proz should add Trados certification as translators search criteria? | Aug 16, 2007 |
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Postings - pct of all postings - CAT tool required
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306 - 20.1% - SDL TRADOS
(...)
Just over 20%? That should put an end to the "Trados essential" urban legend.
Off-topic, I know.
Marc
| | | | Vito Smolej
Duitsland
Local time: 03:32
Lid 2004
Engels naar Sloveens
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Much appreciated... | Aug 16, 2007 |
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Postings - pct of all postings - CAT tool required
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Thank you, Henry! That's great feedback.
All those tools understand each other one way or another. I support the ideas of LISA &Co, ODF, OpenSource ... to standardize the data structures involved even further (for instance: why is European legislation still X times monolingual instead of X-lingual?!...)
Programs = Algorithms + Data structures, wrote Wirth decades ago. Once the data structures are standardized (and accepted!) the programs will per definition be standard / generic.
| | | | | Yes, but .... | Aug 16, 2007 |
Marc P wrote:
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Postings - pct of all postings - CAT tool required
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306 - 20.1% - SDL TRADOS
(...)
Just over 20%? That should put an end to the "Trados essential" urban legend. Off-topic, I know. Marc
You can read these stats at least two different ways.
20% of the jobs posted required Trados - but only 29.3% of all jobs posted required any CAT tool (i.e. if you add up all the percentages)
So, 68.26% of the jobs requiring any CAT tool at all required Trados (whether that is because of consumer ignorance or not is not the issue).
68.26% is still a significant slice of the latter pie.
[Edited at 2007-08-16 16:21]
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