| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9] > | Turn-key translations? Thread poster: writeaway
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PRen (X)
Canada
Local time: 02:54
Prancis menyang Inggris
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...and the taxman in Canada could take a dim view of a Canadian outsourcer not charging, collecting and remitting provincial and federal tax for a translation done by another Canadian because it all happens through Proz.com. The person who did the translation I ordered is Canadian, and I am located in Canada (and am registered to charge HST). Henry, any thoughts on this????
And don't forget, all of these transactions are in US dollars.
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And what if ProZ were ever to go bankrupt. Don't dismiss the idea, it happens. Ask Lehman Brothers.
A proper escrow account should be protected, but what about the wallets?
Again, not big amounts at stake, yet, but these are questions that need to be addressed, especially if there are any plans afoot to expand the online agency side of ProZ.
| | | | Kevin Lossner 
Portugal
Local time: 06:54
Jerman menyang Inggris
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| Ditto for Germany | Jul 19, 2009 |
PRen wrote:
...and the taxman in Canada could take a dim view of a Canadian outsourcer not charging, collecting and remitting provincial and federal tax for a translation done by another Canadian because it all happens through Proz.com.
I do believe it would hit the fan for this in Germany too. And in many other jurisdictions. But I'm sure that all this has been considered carefully and that ProZ will be in full compliance with all local tax laws. Don't you think, Ralf? 
| | | | | We ought to confirm before we report them | Jul 19, 2009 |
RobinB wrote:
But, according to ProZ ( http://www.proz.com/faq/5573#5573), "it is not even necessary to invoice".
Really?
I'm pretty sure that translators have to issue invoices for their work, and these invoices have to comply with the legal requirements in their country of residence (and, possibly, with additional requirements in the destination country as well). I'm sure that whoever drafted the statement referred to above didn't intend it to be interpreted this way, but I can imagine the tax people looking at it and licking their lips. It certainly *looks* like an invitation to tax evasion.....
I must admit that when I read the FAQ statement, I rather foolishly assumed that what they meant was that they would take care of invoicing for you. I have come across agencies who do that, and all the translator has to do is print it and file it away as per normal.
And Proz does have an invoicing system, after all. I have to say, I wondered why, when it was introduced, but it all seems clearer now (not the first time I have used that phrase in connection with this place). So surely all it means is the Proz will produce an invoice for you?
Otherwise, yes, I'd imagine HMRC would be quite interested to hear about the goings on with "P" people here.
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Ralf Lemster
Germany
Local time: 07:54
Inggris menyang Jerman
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| Cannot comment, I'm afraid | Jul 19, 2009 |
Sorry, Kevin...
But I'm sure that all this has been considered carefully and that ProZ will be in full compliance with all local tax laws. Don't you think, Ralf?
...I'm afraid I cannot comment on behalf of ProZ.com.
Ralf
| | | | Nesrin
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:54
Inggris menyang Arab
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| Not shooting the messenger | Jul 19, 2009 |
Giuliana Buscaglione wrote:
To be perfectly honest, I find the sort of resentment I read thru the lines here targeting those red P holders somehow out of place, as it sounds to me like a shooting the messenger instead of the author of the message
Hi Giuliana!
I'm following this thread passively so far, waiting for clarification from site staff (which I'm pretty sure will come tomorrow, as they're usually quiet during the weekend), but I don't think criticism so far was in any way directed at our PRO colleagues, but rather 1) at the scheme itself, or the little we know of it and 2) the lack of transparency surrounding it, and the existence of threads which paying members cannot view. I too feel that if this scheme was a point of appeal for becoming a certified PRO, it should have been announced to the whole community and advertised as an incentive for doing so.
| | | | heikeb
Inggris menyang Jerman
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| manipulation | Jul 19, 2009 |
Charlie Bavington wrote:
And Proz does have an invoicing system, after all. I have to say, I wondered why, when it was introduced, but it all seems clearer now (not the first time I have used that phrase in connection with this place).
Indeed, this seems to be just the latest event of a whole series where I feel that the Proz members are being cleverly manipulated in specific directions.
I was appalled when I got the "secret" e-mail with an invitation to join the P-program before it was announced publicly. It even said at the bottom to keep quiet about it! At first I thought it was a phishing attempt because it seemed too outrageous to be true. But it was "just" a conspiracy against its own members started by Proz.
Again and again, we're presented with faits accomplis where discussions after the fact prove futile.
We are part of a big master plan we don't know anything about, although its ultimate goal seems to become more and more clear with each step: to make Proz richer - as a company, not a community.
| | | | | Which in light of the recent data protection breaches ... | Jul 19, 2009 |
Charlie Bavington wrote:
So surely all it means is the Proz will produce an invoice for you?
... is another thing I wouldn't be happy with, but maybe I'm just not easy to please
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Kevin Lossner
Portugal
Local time: 06:54
Jerman menyang Inggris
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| Nor should you | Jul 19, 2009 |
Ralf Lemster wrote:
...I'm afraid I cannot comment on behalf of ProZ.com.
No, no. I just figure that your confidence that everything has been done right and in accordance with the law is about as high as mine. Maybe even higher given your greater experience with "internal matters"
Never a wrong step as we all know, and always a readiness to assume responsibility....
| | | | | The prices are fixed?!? | Jul 19, 2009 |
PRen wrote:
According to "About ProZ.com turn-key translation", "The prices are fixed, so there is no negotiation. Clients pay in advance and payment is guaranteed by ProZ.com -- it is not even necessary to invoice. The job can be reviewed in its entirety before acceptance, and payment is made shortly after completion."
WTF?!?
| | | | RobinB
United States
Local time: 00:54
Jerman menyang Inggris
| Commodity prices | Jul 19, 2009 |
ViktoriaG wrote: WTF?!?
Commodity prices for commodity translations. Or, as I heard just the other day at an excellent translation conference in Switzerland (in a very similar context), "One price f*cks all".
Surely these turn-off translations can only be attractive to translators who're at the low end of the market in the first place. Just another way to skin a translator...
| | | | Uldis Liepkalns
Latvia
Local time: 08:54
Member (2003)
Inggris menyang Latvia
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| Logical from a business point of view | Jul 19, 2009 |
ViktoriaG wrote:
PRen wrote:
According to "About ProZ.com turn-key translation", "The prices are fixed, so there is no negotiation. Clients pay in advance and payment is guaranteed by ProZ.com -- it is not even necessary to invoice. The job can be reviewed in its entirety before acceptance, and payment is made shortly after completion."
WTF?!?
If you and other qualified translators will not take the job, already *confirmed by ProZ* to the client, they will outsource it to some exotic country (you know what I mean), but it will get done.
You know, they do even Latvian and Estonian over there... the result is another matter
It's only a logical continuation of the encouraged present system, where prices are set by buyers, not suppliers:
"as this is low-budget job, we can pay only blah blah..."
Uldis
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Patricia Lane
France
Local time: 07:54
Prancis menyang Inggris
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| Did they blow it? | Jul 19, 2009 |
I've read through this thread with interest.
Though, logically, my BP should be going through the roof (conflict of interest, fixed pricing, invoicing procedure that seem, for some countries, dubious at best...), I must admit to some degree of Garfield-like amusement (for those unacquainted with Garfield - he is an orange cartoon cat with a sarcastic sense of humor whose idea of exercise is going from couch to fridge to eat cold lasagna).
In striving to have their bread... See more I've read through this thread with interest.
Though, logically, my BP should be going through the roof (conflict of interest, fixed pricing, invoicing procedure that seem, for some countries, dubious at best...), I must admit to some degree of Garfield-like amusement (for those unacquainted with Garfield - he is an orange cartoon cat with a sarcastic sense of humor whose idea of exercise is going from couch to fridge to eat cold lasagna).
In striving to have their bread buttered on both sides, me thinks Proz and Co. might well have blown it. Neither agencies nor professional translators are going to appreciate this little scheme...
Oh, and of course, I support fully Deb's motion
Patricia ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Worked OK for me | Jul 19, 2009 |
Lawyer-Linguist wrote:
Charlie Bavington wrote:
So surely all it means is the Proz will produce an invoice for you?
... is another thing I wouldn't be happy with, but maybe I'm just not easy to please
In fairness, I should say I had no issue or problem with this particular agency producing an invoice for me, and the whole process worked swimmingly.
However, I have much, much less faith in proz IT development. Features regularly seem to be released more or less untested, then fixed on the fly. I have little faith in this site's ability to run a half-way decent invoicing system, and still less in its ability to keep that data secure.
| | | | | "One price f*cks all" | Jul 19, 2009 |
Indeed!
I also support Lawyer-Linguist's motion.
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