| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | 技术译员的头痛事 Thread poster: clearwater
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clearwater
China
Local time: 14:41
English to Chinese
Prato’s textile industry is going to the Chinese, but not always leaving the city. Nesi points out that Prato now has the second-largest Chinese population in Italy, after Milan. In a city of 200,000 people, about 10,000 Chinese live legally and another 40,000 illegally. They work and sometimes live in about 3,500 businesses, often in squalor. “Even the most powerful words, the most elevated concepts seem to be emptied of meaning in the face of this horrendous story of indifference and explo... See more Prato’s textile industry is going to the Chinese, but not always leaving the city. Nesi points out that Prato now has the second-largest Chinese population in Italy, after Milan. In a city of 200,000 people, about 10,000 Chinese live legally and another 40,000 illegally. They work and sometimes live in about 3,500 businesses, often in squalor. “Even the most powerful words, the most elevated concepts seem to be emptied of meaning in the face of this horrendous story of indifference and exploitation among losers,” Nesi writes, “where all the characters are the victims of a chain of dishonesty that spreads out from a deeply rotten idea of work.”
普拉托市的纺织业在走向中国，但并未总是离开这座城市。内西指出，在意大利，普拉托市现在是华人数量第二多的城市，仅次于米兰。在一座有20万人的城市，约1万华人拥有合法居住权，另有4万华人非法居住。他们工作、有时居住在大约3500家企业，这些企业环境常常脏乱差。内西写道：{“在描述失败者当中冷漠和剥削司空见惯的这个可怕故事面前，哪怕最有力的词语，最高级的概念都似乎显得毫无意义，所有人物都是从非常烂的工作想法蔓延开来的不诚实链条的受害者。”}
面对这类描述性很强的文学字眼，从事IT翻译的我束手无策，翻译出来的东西简直跟机器翻译一样差。尤其是Nesi writes的这一长句话。
谢谢各位指点！ ▲ Collapse
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普拉托市的纺织业正在逐步被华人所控制，但很多企业并未离开这座城市。内西指出，在意大利，普拉托市现在是华人数量第二多的城市，仅次于米兰。普拉托市总人口20万，其中有约1万名合法居住的华人，另有4万华人非法居住。他们在大约3500家企业中工作，有时候就住在企业里，生活穷困潦倒。“在这个对失败者充满冷漠、无情剥削的可怕故事面前，哪怕是最强烈的谴责和... See more 普拉托市的纺织业正在逐步被华人所控制，但很多企业并未离开这座城市。内西指出，在意大利，普拉托市现在是华人数量第二多的城市，仅次于米兰。普拉托市总人口20万，其中有约1万名合法居住的华人，另有4万华人非法居住。他们在大约3500家企业中工作，有时候就住在企业里，生活穷困潦倒。“在这个对失败者充满冷漠、无情剥削的可怕故事面前，哪怕是最强烈的谴责和最高尚的思想似乎都失去了意义，” 内西写道。“这里充斥着极度腐朽的工作观，并形成了毫无诚信的环境，所有人都是有这一环境的受害者。”
1. go to the Chinese 应该是指行业逐步被中国人控制的意思。
2. chain应该是枷锁是意思，这个不诚信的枷锁紧紧锁住每个人，所有人都是受害者。这里处理成了“环境”。
翻译之前做了一下搜索，百度 “普拉托纺织业”，找到了一些新闻：
http://www.chinanews.com/hr/2013/12-06/5590357.shtml
http://finance.sina.com.cn/roll/20050401/23311481968.shtml
[Edited at 2013-12-22 03:29 GMT]
[Edited at 2013-12-22 03:32 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Phil Hand 
China
Local time: 14:41
Chinese to English
面对结构复杂的长句子，可以尝试反过来翻译，从句尾开始：
Even the most powerful words, the most elevated concepts seem to be emptied of meaning in the face of this horrendous story of indifference and exploitation among losers,” Nesi writes, “where all the characters are the victims of a chain of dishonesty that spreads out from a deeply rotten idea of work.
本有尊敬和光荣的概念——工作已经被扭曲和污染，导致整个行业从头到尾的商务关系全属利用的诈骗，而受害者之间的冷漠和互相剥削让所有美德和理想都失去了意义。
意思大概是这样，只等Steve来修整成为真正好听的中文！
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 01:41
Chinese to English
+ ...
| good translation | Dec 22, 2013 |
Phil Hand wrote:
面对结构复杂的长句子，可以尝试反过来翻译，从句尾开始：
Even the most powerful words, the most elevated concepts seem to be emptied of meaning in the face of this horrendous story of indifference and exploitation among losers,” Nesi writes, “where all the characters are the victims of a chain of dishonesty that spreads out from a deeply rotten idea of work.
本有尊敬和光荣的概念——工作已经被扭曲和污染，导致整个行业从头到尾的商务关系全属利用的诈骗，而受害者之间的冷漠和互相剥削让所有美德和理想都失去了意义。
意思大概是这样，只等Steve来修整成为真正好听的中文！
Thanks, Phil. I'm afraid I'd have to beg out on this one. I have no idea what the current political climate or censorship is like in Mainland China.
Your version is very good actually. I suggest clearwater make the judgment call and go with Phil's version if everything seems kosher. 
[Edited at 2013-12-23 11:52 GMT]
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Jinhang Wang
China
Local time: 14:41
English to Chinese
+ ...
| exploitation | Dec 22, 2013 |
译为“利用”较为准确些。
| | | | QHE
United States
Local time: 02:41
English to Chinese
+ ...
Yan Yuliang wrote:
普拉托市的纺织业正在逐步被华人所控制，但很多企业并未离开这座城市。内西指出，在意大利，普拉托市现在是华人数量第二多的城市，仅次于米兰。普拉托市总人口20万，其中有约1万名合法居住的华人，另有4万华人非法居住。他们在大约3500家企业中工作，有时候就住在企业里，生活穷困潦倒。“在这个对失败者充满冷漠、无情剥削的可怕故事面前，哪怕是最强烈的谴责和最高尚的思想似乎都失去了意义，” 内西写道。“这里充斥着极度腐朽的工作观，并形成了毫无诚信的环境，所有人都是有这一环境的受害者。”
感觉 Yuliang 对整段的处理挺不错；在此基础上，又加进了点佐料，仅供参考：
"Even the most powerful words, the most elevated concepts seem to be emptied of meaning in the face of this horrendous story of indifference and exploitation among losers,” Nesi writes, “where all the characters are the victims of a chain of dishonesty that spreads out from a deeply rotten idea of work.
(note:这是Nesi在描述华人纺织业及非法民工惨不忍睹的恶劣龌龊工作方式生活环境后的感触之言）
"在这个失败潦倒者间冷酷相煎、耸人听闻的故事面前，即使是最铿锵的言辞、最崇高的理念也只显得苍白无力不足为意，" 内西写道，”所有涉及到的人都是受害者，是这一极度败坏的工作观所侵蚀的尔虞我诈环境导致的恶果。”
| | | | clearwater
China
Local time: 14:41
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER
Yan Yuliang wrote: 普拉托市的纺织业正在逐步被华人所控制，但很多企业并未离开这座城市。内西指出，在意大利，普拉托市现在是华人数量第二多的城市，仅次于米兰。普拉托市总人口20万，其中有约1万名合法居住的华人，另有4万华人非法居住。他们在大约3500家企业中工作，有时候就住在企业里，生活穷困潦倒。“在这个对失败者充满冷漠、无情剥削的可怕故事面前，哪怕是最强烈的谴责和最高尚的思想似乎都失去了意义，” 内西写道。“这里充斥着极度腐朽的工作观，并形成了毫无诚信的环境，所有人都是有这一环境的受害者。” 1. go to the Chinese 应该是指行业逐步被中国人控制的意思。 2. chain应该是枷锁是意思，这个不诚信的枷锁紧紧锁住每个人，所有人都是受害者。这里处理成了“环境”。 翻译之前做了一下搜索，百度 “普拉托纺织业”，找到了一些新闻： http://www.chinanews.com/hr/2013/12-06/5590357.shtml http://finance.sina.com.cn/roll/20050401/23311481968.shtml [Edited at 2013-12-22 03:29 GMT] [Edited at 2013-12-22 03:32 GMT]
多谢Yan兄！
经过这番处理后，通顺多了。
存在严重误译的1和2确实如您所言。
多谢指点！
[Edited at 2013-12-25 21:25 GMT]
| | | | Paul2013
China
Local time: 14:41
Chinese to English
+ ...
Even the most powerful words, the most elevated concepts seem to be emptied of meaning in the face of this horrendous story of indifference and exploitation among losers,” Nesi writes, “where all the characters are the victims of a chain of dishonesty that spreads out from a deeply rotten idea of work.”
be emptied of meaning 我觉得是无法表达，无法描述的意思，所谓罄竹难书。
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pkchan
United States
Local time: 02:41
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Prato’s textile industry is going to the Chinese, but not always leaving the city. Nesi points out that Prato now has the second-largest Chinese population in Italy, after Milan. In a city of 200,000 people, about 10,000 Chinese live legally and another 40,000 illegally. They work and sometimes live in about 3,500 businesses, often in squalor. “Even the most powerful words, the most elevated concepts seem to be emptied of meaning in the face of this horrendous story of indifference and explo... See more Prato’s textile industry is going to the Chinese, but not always leaving the city. Nesi points out that Prato now has the second-largest Chinese population in Italy, after Milan. In a city of 200,000 people, about 10,000 Chinese live legally and another 40,000 illegally. They work and sometimes live in about 3,500 businesses, often in squalor. “Even the most powerful words, the most elevated concepts seem to be emptied of meaning in the face of this horrendous story of indifference and exploitation among losers,” Nesi writes, “where all the characters are the victims of a chain of dishonesty that spreads out from a deeply rotten idea of work.”
雖然，在普拉托的紡織業已被中國人攻陷了，但意大利人總算沒有離開這城市。Nesi 指出，現時普拉托是最多中國人聚居的義大利城市，僅次于米蘭。在市內 20 萬人之中，有5萬名是中國居民，其中4萬名是非法居留的。他們在3,500家工廠裡工作，有時甚至住在廠房裡，是骯髒不堪的地方。"即使用最有力的言詞，最清高的理念，似乎也無法形容眼前這個可怕的故事，在一群失敗者之中，充塞著冷漠和剝削。"Nesi 是這樣寫道﹕"故事中的人物均是連串爾虞我詐的受害者，從一種拼命做工賺錢發財的貪念中蔓延開來。"
[Edited at 2013-12-26 17:47 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 02:41
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
pkchan wrote:
Prato’s textile industry is going to the Chinese, but not always leaving the city. Nesi points out that Prato now has the second-largest Chinese population in Italy, after Milan. In a city of 200,000 people, about 10,000 Chinese live legally and another 40,000 illegally. They work and sometimes live in about 3,500 businesses, often in squalor. “Even the most powerful words, the most elevated concepts seem to be emptied of meaning in the face of this horrendous story of indifference and exploitation among losers,” Nesi writes, “where all the characters are the victims of a chain of dishonesty that spreads out from a deeply rotten idea of work.”
雖然，在普拉托的紡織業已被中國人攻陷了，但意大利人總算沒有離開這城市。Nesi 指出，現時普拉托是最多中國人聚居的義大利城市，僅次于米蘭。在市內 20 萬人之中，有5萬名是中國居民，其中4萬名是非法居留的。他們在3,500家工廠裡工作，有時甚至住在廠房裡，是骯髒不堪的地方。"即使用最有力的言詞，最清高的理念，似乎也無法形容眼前這個可怕的故事，在一群失敗者之中，充塞著冷漠和剝削。"Nesi 是這樣寫道﹕"故事中的人物均是連串爾虞我詐的受害者，從一種拼命做工賺錢發財的貪念中蔓延開來。"
[Edited at 2013-12-26 17:47 GMT]
粤语背景，国语还这么顺畅，不赖。
[Edited at 2013-12-27 03:33 GMT]
| | | | pkchan
United States
Local time: 02:41
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
+ ...
jyuan_us wrote: pkchan wrote:
Prato’s textile industry is going to the Chinese, but not always leaving the city. Nesi points out that Prato now has the second-largest Chinese population in Italy, after Milan. In a city of 200,000 people, about 10,000 Chinese live legally and another 40,000 illegally. They work and sometimes live in about 3,500 businesses, often in squalor. “Even the most powerful words, the most elevated concepts seem to be emptied of meaning in the face of this horrendous story of indifference and exploitation among losers,” Nesi writes, “where all the characters are the victims of a chain of dishonesty that spreads out from a deeply rotten idea of work.”
雖然，在普拉托的紡織業已被中國人攻陷了，但意大利人總算沒有離開這城市。Nesi 指出，現時普拉托是最多中國人聚居的義大利城市，僅次于米蘭。在市內 20 萬人之中，有5萬名是中國居民，其中4萬名是非法居留的。他們在3,500家工廠裡工作，有時甚至住在廠房裡，是骯髒不堪的地方。"即使用最有力的言詞，最清高的理念，似乎也無法形容眼前這個可怕的故事，在一群失敗者之中，充塞著冷漠和剝削。"Nesi 是這樣寫道﹕"故事中的人物均是連串爾虞我詐的受害者，從一種拼命做工賺錢發財的貪念中蔓延開來。"
[Edited at 2013-12-26 17:47 GMT] 粤语背景，国语还这么顺畅，不赖。 [Edited at 2013-12-27 03:33 GMT]
一些翻譯真的會令人感到有點不舒適的。
[Edited at 2014-01-05 01:31 GMT]
| | | | Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 00:41
English to Chinese
pkchan wrote:
Prato’s textile industry is going to the Chinese, but not always leaving the city. Nesi points out that Prato now has the second-largest Chinese population in Italy, after Milan. In a city of 200,000 people, about 10,000 Chinese live legally and another 40,000 illegally. They work and sometimes live in about 3,500 businesses, often in squalor. “Even the most powerful words, the most elevated concepts seem to be emptied of meaning in the face of this horrendous story of indifference and exploitation among losers,” Nesi writes, “where all the characters are the victims of a chain of dishonesty that spreads out from a deeply rotten idea of work.”
雖然，在普拉托的紡織業已被中國人攻陷了，但意大利人總算沒有離開這城市。Nesi 指出，現時普拉托是最多中國人聚居的義大利城市，僅次于米蘭。在市內 20 萬人之中，有5萬名是中國居民，其中4萬名是非法居留的。他們在3,500家工廠裡工作，有時甚至住在廠房裡，是骯髒不堪的地方。"即使用最有力的言詞，最清高的理念，似乎也無法形容眼前這個可怕的故事，在一群失敗者之中，充塞著冷漠和剝削。"Nesi 是這樣寫道﹕"故事中的人物均是連串爾虞我詐的受害者，從一種拼命做工賺錢發財的貪念中蔓延開來。"
[Edited at 2013-12-26 17:47 GMT]
“a deeply rotten idea of work” 译为“拼命做工賺錢發財的貪念”似有不妥。原文好像没有“拼命”、“赚钱”、“发财”这些明确的意涵。而且，说“拼命做工赚钱发财”是一种“贪念”有些勉强，与原文的“deeply rotten” 相去较远。其实，我们每一个普通人，不都是想“拼命做工赚钱发财”吗？这种观念虽不怎么高明，但也算不上“十分腐朽”。
我理解这里所说的“十分腐朽的劳动观”，一方面是指劳动者把自己的劳动仅仅看作谋生手段，即以奴隶的态度对待自己的劳动。这种劳动毫无尊严和快乐可言，甚至连“发财”的希望也断绝了，是一种被剥皮的感觉。另一方面，雇主则把劳动看作单纯的盘剥对象。他们对劳动本身的过程、技艺和其中包含的智慧与美毫无兴趣，对劳动者毫无尊重。
还是直接译为“十分腐朽的劳动观”较为稳妥。
不知大叔以为然否？
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pkchan
United States
Local time: 02:41
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
+ ...
劳动本是高尚，現在變得腐朽，大叔無語，還試試去別處找找好了。
| | | | Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 00:41
English to Chinese
pkchan wrote:
劳动本是高尚，現在變得腐朽，大叔無語，還試試去別處找找好了。
大叔您说的是找什么，到哪里去找？:)
| | | | Jinhang Wang
China
Local time: 14:41
English to Chinese
+ ...
| a deeply rotten idea of work | Jan 5, 2014 |
pkchan wrote:
劳动本是高尚，現在變得腐朽，大叔無語，還試試去別處找找好了。
腐朽透顶的劳动观念。
这里并没有说劳动是腐朽的，而是说对于劳动的观念是腐朽的。
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