Jikan的译名探讨 Thread poster: clearwater
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clearwater
China
Local time: 01:36
English to Chinese
| pkchan 
United States
Local time: 13:36
Member (2006)
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| | Wiktionary 不能盡信 (Jikan 不一定是「時間」) | Jan 12, 2013 |
Jikan 只是讀音。和中文一樣，日語有很多同音字，所以不一定是「時間」，即使只是普通的網上字典查得出的，正常讀 Jikan 的詞語也有7個。(有時作者或改名字的人也可以故意標注不標準的讀音，詞典查得出的未必是全部的可能。)
如果 Jikan「又译“自闲”」，這便很可能是真正的漢字寫法 ，如果真是，問題便變成不是「時間」有什麼理據可以譯成「沉默者」，而是「自閑」有沒有可能解作「沉默者」。(這個我不知道，但我覺得可能性似乎不大。)
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 01:36
Chinese to English
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clearwater
China
Local time: 01:36
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER
Ambrose Li wrote: Jikan 只是讀音。和中文一樣，日語有很多同音字，所以不一定是「時間」，即使只是 普通的網上字典查得出的，正常讀 Jikan 的詞語也有 7個。(有時作者或改名字的人也可以故意標注不標準的讀音，詞典查得出的未必是全部的可能。) 如果 Jikan「又译“自闲”」，這便很 可能是真正的漢字寫法 ，如果真是，問題便變成不是「時間」有什麼理據可以譯成「沉默者」，而是「自閑」有沒有可能解作「沉默者」。(這個我不知道，但我覺得可能性似乎不大。)
刚才又翻了平时不常用的Japanese-English Dictionary（MW出版），发现收录了Jikan。
但只收录了三个释义：
1. time；period
2. time；hour
3. lesson；class
不知Ambrose可否提供更多的释义？
另，很想知道译成“沉默者”或“自闲”的人其依据是什么、
看来，还得懂日文。
| | | | Marvin Sun
China
Local time: 01:36
English to Chinese
字間、寺官、寺観、次官、耳管、耳環、事観、時間、時艱、字貫，貌似都读じかん。
怀疑Jikan是汉字“自閒”的罗马拼音。
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 12:36
Chinese to English
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| According to these 2 English sources | Jan 12, 2013 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Cohen In 1994, Cohen retreated to the Mt. Baldy Zen Center near Los Angeles, beginning what became five years of seclusion at the center.[23] In 1996, Cohen was ordained as a Rinzai Zen Buddhist monk and took the Dharma name Jikan, meaning "silence". He served as personal assistant to Kyozan Joshu Sasaki Roshi.
The silent one 即 沉默者
| | | | clearwater
China
Local time: 01:36
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TOPIC STARTER
谢谢Phil！
现在知道为何有人译成“沉默者”了。不过说实话，我还是觉得译成“沉默者”在这里不如译成“修行者”之类。毕竟，对神职人员来说，silent实指“潜心修行”。
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clearwater
China
Local time: 01:36
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER
wherestip wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Cohen In 1994, Cohen retreated to the Mt. Baldy Zen Center near Los Angeles, beginning what became five years of seclusion at the center.[23] In 1996, Cohen was ordained as a Rinzai Zen Buddhist monk and took the Dharma name Jikan, meaning "silence". He served as personal assistant to Kyozan Joshu Sasaki Roshi. The silent one 即 沉默者
谢谢Steve提供的维基百科！
现在的问题来了：之前Phil和你这次提供的链接都似乎表明Jikan是梵语或佛教用语，但是我手头的那本日英词典又明确表明这是日语。那么这是Jikan到底是不是源自梵语的日语呢？
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 12:36
Chinese to English
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| haven't the foggiest | Jan 13, 2013 |
clearwater wrote:
现在的问题来了：之前Phil和你这次提供的链接都似乎表明Jikan是梵语或佛教用语，但是我手头的那本日英词典又明确表明这是日语。那么这是Jikan到底是不是源自梵语的日语呢？
clearwater,
Sorry to say, I don't know a single word of Japanese or Sanskrit. 
| | | | nigerose
China
Local time: 01:36
Chinese to English
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http://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/zenord.html
Going on 62, Cohen is Baldy's best-known long term inmate. For years he has been telling interviewers about his close friendship with Sasaki Roshi, an 89-year old monk from Japan famous for his extremely rigourous style of Rinzai Zen. Up until now, Cohen has avoided ordination, preffering simply to practice with the teacher he first me... See more http://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/zenord.html
Going on 62, Cohen is Baldy's best-known long term inmate. For years he has been telling interviewers about his close friendship with Sasaki Roshi, an 89-year old monk from Japan famous for his extremely rigourous style of Rinzai Zen. Up until now, Cohen has avoided ordination, preffering simply to practice with the teacher he first met in the early 70s.
Now older, and presumably wiser, Cohen was ready to embrace the spiritual life, perhaps out of sheer disenchantment with the alternatives.
>From now on he'll be known as "Jikan", a dharma name meaning "Silent One". Where this will leave his work is not clear: it will be interesting to see if he decides to sing about the Four Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path and the Five Buddhist Precepts, which include a vow to refrain from sexual misconduct. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Sanskrit vs Japanese | Jan 13, 2013 |
IMHO Sanskrit is quite implausible (despite the reference) as he was following a Japanese master. We probably need better sources.
BTW, I don’t think “the silent one” is necessarily 沉默者. Without context it’s of course very plausible, but if Jikan = 自閑 then “silent” might not be referring to a lack of sound.
PS: There are links in my previous comment. The dictionary entries I mentioned were already in those links.
[Edited at 2013-01-13 03:07 GMT]
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nigerose
China
Local time: 01:36
Chinese to English
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| Family or surname | Jan 13, 2013 |
| | | | | Sanskrit vs Japanese part 2 | Jan 13, 2013 |
BTW, although I don’t find the Sanskrit explanation plausible, given the Zen Buddhism connection, I’m not ruling out the possibility that the term might have ultimately come from a Sanskrit root. Even so, (TNR’s article) calling the name “Sanskrit” is probably a bit misleading.
In any case, if the Sanskrit connection indeed exists, this might turn out to be of some use.
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