This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer
Jan 29 12:33
3 mos ago
34 viewers *
French term
United Kingdom
Sensible solutions
Native in: English (Variant: Wessexois) 
Works in: French to English, English, English to French
Créance envers une société proche
French to English
Bus/Financial
Accounting
This item is an asset in a company account
"société proche" is my query
I am considering "receivable due from linked company" but cannot find a convincing translation
"société proche" is my query
I am considering "receivable due from linked company" but cannot find a convincing translation
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
53 mins
receivable due from a company with family connections
It is interesting that Créance envers une société proche brings up only 4 ghits, all of them Swiss, and 3 of them (including what follows) being the same thing.
"Absence d’intérêt sur une créance envers une société proche
J’ai fait du commerce avec la société de mon cousin. Les affaires ont malheureusement mal tourné pour lui et nos relations se sont donc terminées. Comme il a des difficultés financières visiblement, j’encaisse peu à peu le solde de ce qu’il me doit, mais renonce à lui calculer des intérêts."
https://www.drys.ch/pdf/20120116bjabsenceintérêtssurcréances...
Is there any evidence in your document that this is the case?
Example below of my suggestion.
"Ltd company A lends £200,000 to Ltd company B that is owned by a family member of company A, to purchase a buy to let property. The loan is repaid from B to A out of part of the rental income.
Can it be an interest free loan or does interest have to be charged? […] However, it is possible that HMRC could successfully argue that the making of an interest-free loan to a company with family connections is not within the commercial purposes of Company A, and therefore disallow the write-off (but the credit in B remaining taxable)."
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/loan-to-connecte...
"Absence d’intérêt sur une créance envers une société proche
J’ai fait du commerce avec la société de mon cousin. Les affaires ont malheureusement mal tourné pour lui et nos relations se sont donc terminées. Comme il a des difficultés financières visiblement, j’encaisse peu à peu le solde de ce qu’il me doit, mais renonce à lui calculer des intérêts."
https://www.drys.ch/pdf/20120116bjabsenceintérêtssurcréances...
Is there any evidence in your document that this is the case?
Example below of my suggestion.
"Ltd company A lends £200,000 to Ltd company B that is owned by a family member of company A, to purchase a buy to let property. The loan is repaid from B to A out of part of the rental income.
Can it be an interest free loan or does interest have to be charged? […] However, it is possible that HMRC could successfully argue that the making of an interest-free loan to a company with family connections is not within the commercial purposes of Company A, and therefore disallow the write-off (but the credit in B remaining taxable)."
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/loan-to-connecte...
Note from asker:
| No, unfortunately no clues |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
philgoddard
: There are only four hits for the exact phrase, but there are plenty for 'société proche' + 'créance'. My guess would be 'associated company', but I'm not sure.
1 hr
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Keep on guessing, that is pretty much all we can do it would seem.
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| neutral |
Francois Boye
: Receivable is the English for 'effet à recevoir'. It is not the English for 'créance'
1 hr
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I looked into the 'proche' (""société proche" is my query") and gave obviously misplaced credit to Asker's suggested translation.
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| disagree |
Daryo
: There must be some kind of connection, but not necessarily any kind of "family connection" - you extrapolated from a very small sample.
9 hrs
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-1
1 hr
Francois Boye
United States
United States
Native in French
United States
An economic geek with social skills
Native in: French
Works in: English to French, French to English, Spanish to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
150
Claim on a company with family connections
Claim is the English for 'créance'. It's a right to get what you own. In this case, a company with family connections owes you an amount of money
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
philgoddard
: The correct accounting term is 'receivable from', not 'claim on'.
3 hrs
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Receivable is the English for 'effet à recevoir'.
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| disagree |
Daryo
: Never mind "claims vs receivables", "family connections" is an extrapolation from a very limited sample.// ONE sample does not make family ties the only possible type of connection between two "related companies".
10 hrs
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your objection???
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-2
43 mins
Rhys Allan
Germany
Germany
Native in English
Germany
French & Spanish > English Translation
Native in: English (Variants: UK, British)
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English, English
Subsidiary
My thought is that either 'subsidiary' or 'sister company' may work here, depending on the full relationship between the two linked companies.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2024-01-29 16:25:34 GMT)
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I think, regarding the full sentence, I would have given it as "amount due to sister company", or something along those lines.
However I think the answers given by Bourth and Francois are excellent, and if the Société Proche is indeed a company with family connections, then perhaps something like "related company" would be a potential solution?
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Note added at 3 hrs (2024-01-29 16:25:34 GMT)
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I think, regarding the full sentence, I would have given it as "amount due to sister company", or something along those lines.
However I think the answers given by Bourth and Francois are excellent, and if the Société Proche is indeed a company with family connections, then perhaps something like "related company" would be a potential solution?
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
writeaway
: Subsidiary, a company that is at least 51 percent owned by another business firm, known as a parent company or holding company https://www.britannica.com/money/topic/subsidiary
4 mins
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Yes, despite my main answer I would actually probably lean more towards 'sister company', to demonstrate what appears to be a close equal relationship.
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| disagree |
Daryo
: Not very likely, a subsidiary would simply be included in the "consolidated accounts" of the parent company + "family ties" are NOT the only possible connection between two "connected/related" businesses.
10 hrs
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| disagree |
Steve Robbie
: Subsidiary is too narrow, as noted above, and "sister company" also suggests that they have a common *parent*, which need not be the case.
21 hrs
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-1
7 hrs
Adrian MM.
Austria
Austria
Native in English
Specializes in field
Austria
Retd.T&I, Barrister & Austro-Advokat
Native in: English (Variants: British, Scottish) 
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, French to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
41
amount due / owed to a related undertaking (entity = company or partnership)
> "receivable due from linked company" - like the other receivable answer - IMO is a canny interpretation and definitely (Daily Mail commentators: 'definately') on the right lines.
I also def. agree with Rhys A's related company, except it may not be a company, but a partnership rather than a one-man/-woman company akin to a sole (BrE) trade or (AmE) proprietorship that is often misunderstood as inseparable from a private individual (need not be furthjer canvassed here)- but see below.
I moot 'undertaking', as used by my hono(u)rable UK accountant in Croydon, just in case the entity in point is a partnership, a corporation or even an EU-type EIG / economic interest grouping.
Related company includes, affiliate (50% *or less*), associate (as per comment on the first answer, notably between 20% and 50% (= owns this percentage of its shares): or subsidiary 50.01% + or more than 50%-owned
Note that, in both English & French law, companies can be members / general *unlimited* partners of partnerships, so there are various permutations and combinations that I would rather not speculate on out of context - hence my low CL = confidence level in symetrically, descending order of answers : 4-3-2-1.
I also def. agree with Rhys A's related company, except it may not be a company, but a partnership rather than a one-man/-woman company akin to a sole (BrE) trade or (AmE) proprietorship that is often misunderstood as inseparable from a private individual (need not be furthjer canvassed here)- but see below.
I moot 'undertaking', as used by my hono(u)rable UK accountant in Croydon, just in case the entity in point is a partnership, a corporation or even an EU-type EIG / economic interest grouping.
Related company includes, affiliate (50% *or less*), associate (as per comment on the first answer, notably between 20% and 50% (= owns this percentage of its shares): or subsidiary 50.01% + or more than 50%-owned
Note that, in both English & French law, companies can be members / general *unlimited* partners of partnerships, so there are various permutations and combinations that I would rather not speculate on out of context - hence my low CL = confidence level in symetrically, descending order of answers : 4-3-2-1.
Example sentence:
In most cases, the parent company will own less than a 50% interest in its affiliated company.// ASSOCIATED COMPANY: a company in which another company has a stake of between 20% and 50%
'amounts owed to affiliated undertakings and participating interests'
Reference:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/accounting/5065084-sa-créance-envers-la-société.html
Note from asker:
| Thanks for this and your reasoning, despite your reference to your Croydon Croney. I like the neutral "undertaking" |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Daryo
: That's the basic idea - but the other way round "amounts owed by ...". Perfectionists with time on their hand can always go through the Swiss and UK accounting systems to find the exact term used by accountants.
3 hrs
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| disagree |
philgoddard
: It's due from, not to.
9 hrs
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| neutral |
Steve Robbie
: From, not to, but "related undertaking" is good.
15 hrs
|
+1
22 hrs
Andrew Bramhall
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
Flair and accuracy tailored to your text
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, German to English
Amounts due (payable) from affiliates
A brief online research reveals it to be a predominantly Swiss French term:
du 1) Créances des actionnaires envers la société
Canton du Jura
https://www.jura.ch › CTR › Formulaires2019
PDF
Créances des actionnaires envers la société : Nom des actionnaires, pers ... b) Votre société paie-t-elle des rentes à ses actionnaires ou personnes proches ?
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
affiliate
verb
/əˈfɪlɪeɪt/
officially attach or connect (a subsidiary group or a person) to an organization.
"they are national associations affiliated to larger organizations"
Similar:
associate with
be in league with
unite with
combine with
join with
join up with
join forces with
ally with
form an alliance with
align with
amalgamate with
merge with
coalesce with
federate with
confederate with
form a federation with
form a confederation with
team up with
band together with
cooperate with
annex to
attach to
yoke to
incorporate into
integrate into
associated
allied
related
integrated
amalgamated
incorporated
federated
confederated
unified
connected
linked
joined
bound
belonging
in league
in partnership
noun
/əˈfɪlɪət/
a person or organization officially attached to a larger body.
"the firm established links with American affiliates"
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Note added at 23 hrs (2024-01-30 11:53:29 GMT)
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@Asker: yes indeed Chris, Swiss French and Swiss German ( and almost certainly Swiss Italian of which I have no knowledge) have their own idiosyncratic legalese terminology, as does Austrian German to a lesser extent. Therefore the quest for directly equivalent translations is often futile.
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Note added at 23 hrs (2024-01-30 11:58:33 GMT)
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P.S. Sorry for the lengthy printout of definitions of 'affiliates', it just happened without me being able to see it first. But I think a generic term like 'affiliates' could work here.
du 1) Créances des actionnaires envers la société
Canton du Jura
https://www.jura.ch › CTR › Formulaires2019
Créances des actionnaires envers la société : Nom des actionnaires, pers ... b) Votre société paie-t-elle des rentes à ses actionnaires ou personnes proches ?
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
affiliate
verb
/əˈfɪlɪeɪt/
officially attach or connect (a subsidiary group or a person) to an organization.
"they are national associations affiliated to larger organizations"
Similar:
associate with
be in league with
unite with
combine with
join with
join up with
join forces with
ally with
form an alliance with
align with
amalgamate with
merge with
coalesce with
federate with
confederate with
form a federation with
form a confederation with
team up with
band together with
cooperate with
annex to
attach to
yoke to
incorporate into
integrate into
associated
allied
related
integrated
amalgamated
incorporated
federated
confederated
unified
connected
linked
joined
bound
belonging
in league
in partnership
noun
/əˈfɪlɪət/
a person or organization officially attached to a larger body.
"the firm established links with American affiliates"
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Note added at 23 hrs (2024-01-30 11:53:29 GMT)
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@Asker: yes indeed Chris, Swiss French and Swiss German ( and almost certainly Swiss Italian of which I have no knowledge) have their own idiosyncratic legalese terminology, as does Austrian German to a lesser extent. Therefore the quest for directly equivalent translations is often futile.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2024-01-30 11:58:33 GMT)
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P.S. Sorry for the lengthy printout of definitions of 'affiliates', it just happened without me being able to see it first. But I think a generic term like 'affiliates' could work here.
Note from asker:
| Yes, it is indeed a Swiss term |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
philgoddard
: I think this is the most likely meaning.
3 hrs
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So do I. Thanks Phil.
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| neutral |
Francois Boye
: Thèse additional pie:es of information should have been revealed by Asker
7 hrs
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Yep, thanks.
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-1
4 days
Debt towards a nearby company
"Créance" refers to a debt. It is not certain that we are talking about an affiliated company, I prefer to translate "nearby".
Note from asker:
| I fail to see how a "nearby" company can be of any relevance; this is about a "relationship" between companies |
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Andrew Bramhall
: Geographical location is irrelevant, and ' debt towards' is unidiomatic.
6 mins
|
Reference comments
11 hrs
Reference:
A sample of Annual accounts of a Swiss company
Annual accounts of
Compagnie du chemin de fer Nyon-St-Cergue-Morez SA, Nyon
(hardly any kind of "family business")
"2.2.5 Prêts société proche 1 1
Prêt à RailTech SA, postposé 100 000 100 000
Taux d'intérêt 2022: 0.0%
Durée: du 27.05.2019 au plus tard le 01.01.2030
Correction de valeur"
This loan was made to another company also in the railway business RailTech SA - the connection is that they are both in the railway business, with possibly some kind of cross-ownership or some other from of interdependence, as otherwise the loan would certainly NOT be at "Taux d'intérêt 2022: 0.0%"
https://www.nstcm.ch/data/dataimages/Upload/Rapport de gesti...
A loan between two businesses at 0% interest rate - typical opposite of what would be an "arm’s length transaction".
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Note added at 11 hrs (2024-01-29 23:52:21 GMT)
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Another point:
"receivables" are amounts owed to the company by buyers of goods or services sold by the company.
So "receivables" won't work here, as this "Créance envers une société proche" results in fact from a loan that is supposed to be paid back at some point in future, not from a sale.
https://getuplearn.com/blog/what-is-receivables/
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Note added at 11 hrs (2024-01-29 23:58:55 GMT)
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Here the link between these two companies - can't see any kind of "family ties" anywhere on the horizon:
A propos de RailTech
Fortes d’une collaboration fructueuse, à l’acquisition d’une nouvelle génération de véhicules ferroviaires, entre 2013 et 2015, les entreprises vaudoises de chemin de fer Lausanne-Echallens-Bercher SA (LEB), Transports de la région Morges – Bière – Cossonay SA (MBC), Transports Montreux – Vevey – Riviera SA (MVR), Compagnie du Chemin de fer Montreux-Oberland bernois SA (MOB), Compagnie du chemin de fer Nyon – St-Cergue – Morez SA (NStCM), Transports Vallée-de-Joux – Yverdon-les-Bains – Sainte-Croix SA (TRAVYS), les Transports publics du Chablais SA (TPC) et les transports publics fribourgeois Holding SA (TPF) ont recherché de nouvelles perspectives de coopération dans le cadre de leurs activités.
La maintenance et l’entretien des bogies étant une compétence présente au sein des entreprises MOB/MVR, TPF et TPC une mise en commun de ce savoir-faire est apparue comme essentielle et s’inscrit dans cette volonté de collaboration.
Sur la base de ces constats et après analyse des enjeux, les entreprises LEB, MBC, MOB, MVR, NStCM, TPF, TRAVYS, TPC et TL (Transports publics de la région lausannoise SA) ont conclu que le maintien de l’indépendance vis-à-vis de l’industrie et le maintien des compétences au sein des compagnies passaient par la création d’un consortium en Suisse romande, doté d’une infrastructure ad hoc, permettant un entretien des bogies à des coûts concurrentiels, sous la forme d’un site unique de maintenance.
https://railtechsa.ch/
Compagnie du chemin de fer Nyon-St-Cergue-Morez SA, Nyon
(hardly any kind of "family business")
"2.2.5 Prêts société proche 1 1
Prêt à RailTech SA, postposé 100 000 100 000
Taux d'intérêt 2022: 0.0%
Durée: du 27.05.2019 au plus tard le 01.01.2030
Correction de valeur"
This loan was made to another company also in the railway business RailTech SA - the connection is that they are both in the railway business, with possibly some kind of cross-ownership or some other from of interdependence, as otherwise the loan would certainly NOT be at "Taux d'intérêt 2022: 0.0%"
https://www.nstcm.ch/data/dataimages/Upload/Rapport de gesti...
A loan between two businesses at 0% interest rate - typical opposite of what would be an "arm’s length transaction".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2024-01-29 23:52:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Another point:
"receivables" are amounts owed to the company by buyers of goods or services sold by the company.
So "receivables" won't work here, as this "Créance envers une société proche" results in fact from a loan that is supposed to be paid back at some point in future, not from a sale.
https://getuplearn.com/blog/what-is-receivables/
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2024-01-29 23:58:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here the link between these two companies - can't see any kind of "family ties" anywhere on the horizon:
A propos de RailTech
Fortes d’une collaboration fructueuse, à l’acquisition d’une nouvelle génération de véhicules ferroviaires, entre 2013 et 2015, les entreprises vaudoises de chemin de fer Lausanne-Echallens-Bercher SA (LEB), Transports de la région Morges – Bière – Cossonay SA (MBC), Transports Montreux – Vevey – Riviera SA (MVR), Compagnie du Chemin de fer Montreux-Oberland bernois SA (MOB), Compagnie du chemin de fer Nyon – St-Cergue – Morez SA (NStCM), Transports Vallée-de-Joux – Yverdon-les-Bains – Sainte-Croix SA (TRAVYS), les Transports publics du Chablais SA (TPC) et les transports publics fribourgeois Holding SA (TPF) ont recherché de nouvelles perspectives de coopération dans le cadre de leurs activités.
La maintenance et l’entretien des bogies étant une compétence présente au sein des entreprises MOB/MVR, TPF et TPC une mise en commun de ce savoir-faire est apparue comme essentielle et s’inscrit dans cette volonté de collaboration.
Sur la base de ces constats et après analyse des enjeux, les entreprises LEB, MBC, MOB, MVR, NStCM, TPF, TRAVYS, TPC et TL (Transports publics de la région lausannoise SA) ont conclu que le maintien de l’indépendance vis-à-vis de l’industrie et le maintien des compétences au sein des compagnies passaient par la création d’un consortium en Suisse romande, doté d’une infrastructure ad hoc, permettant un entretien des bogies à des coûts concurrentiels, sous la forme d’un site unique de maintenance.
https://railtechsa.ch/
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
philgoddard
: So Railtech is a consortium of which Nyon-St-Cergue-Morez SA is a member. This may be the answer to the question - perhaps Allegro can check whether this is the case in his example.
5 hrs
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Thanks! It's just one sample of a far more likely scenario regarding "linked/related" companies.
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| agree |
Steve Robbie
: "Proche" here is conceivably a Swiss calque of "nahestehend".
11 hrs
|
Discussion
Although it makes no difference regarding the explanation of what are debts between "related companies" - one will always be a creditor and the other one a debtor.
The key point is that the transaction creating this debt is not "at arm's length" i.e. the two businesses are not truly independent from each other.
It could that some directors are sitting on both company board of directors or maybe have the same shareholders who are pulling strings.
That's what matters in accounting, not the existence of some personal "family connections" - debts to "connected businesses" (where you could have a case of your own "left pocket" pretending to owe money to your own "right pocket") are separated from "real" debts to totally unconnected businesses.