Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
chantre ordinaire
English translation:
singer / cantor in ordinary
Added to glossary by
Charles Davis
Jul 24, 2019 13:50
4 yrs ago
5 viewers *
French term
chantre ordinaire
French to English
Art/Literary
Music
baroque era
Perhaps the term 'ordinaire' (also used with violinist) should be left in French, although it does not convey the prestige of the appointment. I take it to mean an official /court musician specially appointed by a monarch. Any cpnnoisseurs out there?
This is about Mouliné:
Chanteur et compositeur (1599-1676), il commence son apprentissage de la musique à la maîtrise de la cathédrale Saint-Just à Narbonne, avant de rejoindre à Paris son frère aîné, chantre ordinaire de la Chambre du roi.
This is about Mouliné:
Chanteur et compositeur (1599-1676), il commence son apprentissage de la musique à la maîtrise de la cathédrale Saint-Just à Narbonne, avant de rejoindre à Paris son frère aîné, chantre ordinaire de la Chambre du roi.
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +2 | singer / cantor in ordinary | Charles Davis |
3 -1 | canter "ordinaire" | Kartik Isaac |
Change log
Oct 7, 2019 09:12: Charles Davis Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+2
72 days
Selected
singer / cantor in ordinary
For references and explanation, please see the discussion box. "Cantor" is nowadays an ecclesiastical term, but it may describe what Moulinié's brother did at court. Alternatively, for the reasons mentioned, I think you could simply call him a "singer", as Oxford Music Online does.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
2 mins
|
Thanks again :-)
|
|
agree |
Ph_B (X)
: (Apologies for the lateness, but I didn't see your answer until I got a notice saying the question had been closed.)
1 day 21 hrs
|
Many thanks!
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "not yet gone to print so thank you"
-1
71 days
canter "ordinaire"
Perhaps you could keep the French term and describe it? I found this on Linguee: "chantre ordinaire" ("ordinaire" referring to a full-time or permanent position) https://www.linguee.com/english-french/search?query=chantre ...
Reference:
https://www.linguee.com/english-french/search?query=chantre+ordinaire+de+la+Chambre+du+roi.
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: no, "canter" means something else entirely! Perhaps you meant "cantor". And no to "ordinaire" also. Agree with Charles (see Dbox)
22 hrs
|
Discussion
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yt-KBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT1858&l...
"Moulinié [Moulinier, Moulinière, Molinié], Etienne
(b Languedoc, c1600; d Languedoc, after 1669). French composer. As a child he sang in the choir of Narbonne Cathedral. In 1624 he came to Paris, where his elder brother Antoine (d Paris, 8 Aug 1655) was a singer in the king’s chamber."
https://oxfordindex.oup.com/view/10.1093/gmo/9781561592630.a...
Ph_B is right: in court language "in ordinary" is the equivalent of "ordinaire", as I argued in the previous question he has cited.
"Dignitaire qui remplit l'office de maître de chœur, qui entonne et préside au chant dans un monastère ou une église."
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/chantre
However, Antoine Moulinié, Étienne's elder brother, held the post of chantre not in a church but at court. Had it been in the Chapel Royal it would probably mean a cantor, but it was in the Chambre du roi, the Privy Chamber. and in this context I believe it simply means a singer. Again, I don't think it means a chorister; it implies (to me) that he was a soloist. Nowadays chantre is not used in ordinary language as a synonym of chanteur, but it was standard in français moyen and although it was becoming archaic by the seventeenth century, since chantre had become an ecclesiastical term, it was still in use. Court terminology is often archaic for its time.